History Lesson Needed

Ok, but if WC4 cost about 14million, and each copy would sell about 40 bucks, Origin need to at least seel about less than 400,000 copies of it.
Since Wing Commander was big then I'm sure they might have passed th 500,000 mark!;)
 
But only a little bit of that $40 (lets say $50 -- this was 1996) goes back to Electronic Arts. The vast majority of it will go to the retailer and the distributor... and then there's money for advertising and such... and I'd be willing to bet the 14 million figure doesn't factor in the actual cost to develop the *game* -- just the cost to film the movie sequences.
 
Yeah, what LOAF said.

According to a 2001 ELSPA market report, a PC game that costs 30 pounds in retail is actually sold for about 16 pounds wholesale. Minus the costs of manufacuring and marketing, you end up with 8.25 pounds gross going to the publisher - in other words, EA probably got just under 30% of the retail price. If WC4 was sold for $40, they would have made about $11 per unit. This means that ultimately, over 1,200,000 copies would have need to be sold. Meanwhile, PC games these days rarely sell over 500,000 copies. I'm not sure if that was the case back in 1996, but I rather doubt that.

Of course, they also had the PSX version to earn money from, but with the PSX, the situation is apparently even worse (at least in 2001), with the publisher getting 5.25 pounds per unit for a game that's sold in retail for 30 pounds - 18%, or $7 for a $40 game.

All in all, if we assume that the situation was similar in 1996, and that WCIV sold 1,000,000 copies on the PC (which seems like a pretty generous estimate), they would have still needed to sell another 430,000 on the PSX just to break even.
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
Yes and no. Prophecy sold very well compared to every other space sim on the market (10+ times more)... but it didn't make as much money as Origin made off of Ultima Online. The decision was made to go ahead with online-only properties, and the fact that Westwood called first dibs with 'Earth and Beyond' meant that Origin didn't put out an MMP Wing Commander title. (Which, I'll bet, EA regrets right now...).
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It is interesting to note that Ultima was on a low when UO was launched. Ultima 8 was somewhat of a failure compared with the previous one (so much that its add on “The Lost Vale", was cancelled due to alleged lack of interest), and Ultima 9 was vaporware. Also, EA of all companies should know that using a strong and widely known trademark to propel an online game is good strategy (Ultima!). Perhaps they were disappointed with the performance of Privateer 2, but I’m not they really cared. Anyway, it would be a good idea to just call it WING COMMANDER PRIVATEER ONLINE or something. :) They even registered a domain, as the CIC reported at the time.

They pretty mitigated any chance of this when they canceled first the announced multiplayer component of WCP, and then the stand alone multiplayer game based on WCP’s Vision engine. I tend to agree that it’s stupid to delay an almost finish game just to tune up the multiplayer part, but it’s nice when you do it later, like with Deus Ex, for example.
 
Ultima 8 was somewhat of a failure compared with the previous one (so much that its add on “The Lost Vale", was cancelled due to alleged lack of interest), and Ultima 9 was vaporware.
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Ultima 8 was a *terrible* embarassing failure, financially and reputation-wise. (Ultima 9 did finally get released, though, albeit under a different name...).

Also, EA of all companies should know that using a strong and widely known trademark to propel an online game is good strategy (Ultima!).
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EA didn't have any idea what to expect with UO -- it was a shock to everybody that it was succesful, and it lead to a bazillion people trying to take advantage of the new 'genre'. The vast majority of them didn't succeed, and EA is terribly worried about splitting their existing user base... (hence the cancellation of UO2).

Perhaps they were disappointed with the performance of Privateer 2, but I’m not they really cared. Anyway, it would be a good idea to just call it WING COMMANDER PRIVATEER ONLINE or something. They even registered a domain, as the CIC reported at the time.
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They did a lot of work on the game -- I've played a version where you could walk around a planet, and I've seen plenty of artwork and 3D stuff that was done.

Of course, they also had the PSX version to earn money from, but with the PSX, the situation is apparently even worse (at least in 2001), with the publisher getting 5.25 pounds per unit for a game that's sold in retail for 30 pounds - 18%, or $7 for a $40 game.
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If you count the PSX version, you have to figure in the fact that they spent yet *more* money paying a team of people to port the game in the first place... (note that there was also a Mac port, a Win9x port and a DVD version).

All in all, if we assume that the situation was similar in 1996, and that WCIV sold 1,000,000 copies on the PC (which seems like a pretty generous estimate), they would have still needed to sell another 430,000 on the PSX just to break even.
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Wing 1 and Wing 3 may have hit the million mark, but Wing IV certainly didn't. Best estimate is 500-750k...
 
Originally posted by Delance
It is interesting to note that Ultima was on a low when UO was launched. Ultima 8 was somewhat of a failure compared with the previous one (so much that its add on “The Lost Vale", was cancelled due to alleged lack of interest), and Ultima 9 was vaporware.
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Vaporware? Then this collectors edition of Ultima IX: Ascension, complete with the UO:T2A disc they sent me with the patched install disc in apology for the crash-prone initial version doesn't exist? Man, my hallucinations are good! ;)

When UO came out, though... yeah, Ultima was doing pretty badly, at least the single-player games. Ultima 8 ended up being more Crusader in its appearance (plus the whole killing of Dupre really made it a little anathema to some players), which meant that the people who loved the freedom of Ultima 7 and the party of Ultima 6 were turned off by the solo-adventure aspect.

Ultima 9 also ditched the party, but the whole 'ooooh... pretty Brittania!' thing made up for that in part. However, the combat was awful, and the romance almost as horrid. :P

But for me, Ultima Online wasn't the same after Raz or whatever his name was killed Lord British in the beta and LB stayed dead after that. Pity, that...
 
He funded the games insofar that he owned Origin for the first while... Origin was bought out by EA in September of 1992, influenced heavily by financial problems on Origin's part, at which point they would have been funding everything. I very much doubt Garriot personally put any money into the Crusader series, which didn't get released until years after EA purchased the studio.
 
Originally posted by Karthik@KANE
Eventhough Mechwarrior 4 made use of FMV, I heard it was pretty bad and horrible.
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if you ment the game, MechWarrior 4 was good. 3 was better, but 4 was good.

if you ment the FMV, i agree, it was horrible
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
If you count the PSX version, you have to figure in the fact that they spent yet *more* money paying a team of people to port the game in the first place... (note that there was also a Mac port, a Win9x port and a DVD version).
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Indeed. That money would have been paid out of the publisher gross. It's difficult to say how much that would have been, but it certainly would have made things even harder.

Wing 1 and Wing 3 may have hit the million mark, but Wing IV certainly didn't. Best estimate is 500-750k...
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Thanks for the info. I suspected as much, but I wasn't sure. Any idea how many copies they sold on the PSX? Or does this 750k already include all platforms?
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
Ultima 8 was a *terrible* embarassing failure, financially and reputation-wise. (Ultima 9 did finally get released, though, albeit under a different name...).
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I was being nice. What different name? Mobygames lists it as "Ultima IX: Ascension".

EA didn't have any idea what to expect with UO -- it was a shock to everybody that it was succesful, and it lead to a bazillion people trying to take advantage of the new 'genre'. The vast majority of them didn't succeed, and EA is terribly worried about splitting their existing user base... (hence the cancellation of UO2).
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Just like the FMV and RTS fevers. :) Curiosly, the name of UO2 was going to be something crazy like "Ultima Worlds Online: Origin" or something.

They did a lot of work on the game -- I've played a version where you could walk around a planet, and I've seen plenty of artwork and 3D stuff that was done.
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Privateer Online, that is how they called it. It could have been, truly, a great game. Now, it's nothing more than vaporware. I remember some screenshots of some conceptual art and some renderings, and it looked fantastic. It's cool you got the chance to walk around a planet, if I remember, it was something Roberts always wanted to do - a game where you could land and walk around.

Wing 1 and Wing 3 may have hit the million mark, but Wing IV certainly didn't. Best estimate is 500-750k...
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WCIV was kept on sale fore years... So it might have added up a bit in the numbers. Those are fairly good numbers, especially for the mid-90's. MOOII sold 350k and was considered a great success. :) It was a concept thing, I'm not sure EA expected it to make a lot of money, but Chris Roberts did really go over budget. But I don't think it did have anything to do with the fact that they didn't make any more WC games.
 
Have you guys noticed that DVD-ROM could have been the next medium if Quake didn't come out?! WC4 proved that CDs weren't enough to hold an interactive movie/space flight simulator.

Hell we could have been in the DVD age by 1999! Looks like PC owners have to wait, while their little brothers(consoles) have an edge when it comes to storage!
 
Originally posted by Delance
WCIV was kept on sale fore years... So it might have added up a bit in the numbers. Those are fairly good numbers, especially for the mid-90's. MOOII sold 350k and was considered a great success. :)
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If you look at Roberts' Ascendant bio, it states that the Wing Commander series sold more than 3 million copies "by 1995." Strike Commander sold 500,000 and it was "eclipsed by Wing Commander III." It ends with "to date, the Wing Commander series has generated more than $400 million in revenue."
 
Have you guys noticed that DVD-ROM could have been the next medium if Quake didn't come out?! WC4 proved that CDs weren't enough to hold an interactive movie/space flight simulator.

Hell we could have been in the DVD age by 1999! Looks like PC owners have to wait, while their little brothers(consoles) have an edge when it comes to storage!
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Well, what Wing Commander IV proved -- Quake or not -- was that the 'interactive movie' genre had hit a brick wall. :) WCIVDVD is an incredible release, though...

What different name? Mobygames lists it as "Ultima IX: Ascension".
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There was no 'IX' -- it was published as 'Ultima: Ascension', as at some point in the late nineties the world decided that numbers were bad ("Wing Commander: Prophecy", "Star Trek: Generations", and so forth...).

Just like the FMV and RTS fevers. Curiosly, the name of UO2 was going to be something crazy like "Ultima Worlds Online: Origin" or something.
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Its fate was pretty much sealed at that point. EA realized at that time -- a year or two into development -- that Ultima Online 2 wouldn't create a new audience... it'd just take people away from Ultima Online. Their first tactic was that stupid name-change...

Privateer Online, that is how they called it.
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They called it lots of things -- it went through two-plus development teams and several years of on-and-off work. It was 'Wing Commander Online' when I saw it.

It could have been, truly, a great game. Now, it's nothing more than vaporware.
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'Vaporware' is when a game is hyped for years but never released... Privateer Online was never even *announced*.

I remember some screenshots of some conceptual art and some renderings, and it looked fantastic.
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You're probably thinking of Privateer 3, which was cancelled.

WCIV was kept on sale fore years... So it might have added up a bit in the numbers. Those are fairly good numbers, especially for the mid-90's. MOOII sold 350k and was considered a great success. It was a concept thing, I'm not sure EA expected it to make a lot of money, but Chris Roberts did really go over budget. But I don't think it did have anything to do with the fact that they didn't make any more WC games.
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They weren't good numbers compared to its *immediate predicessor* which sold a million copies... and they certainly weren't what EA was hoping for.

Thanks for the info. I suspected as much, but I wasn't sure. Any idea how many copies they sold on the PSX? Or does this 750k already include all platforms?
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I would say that it probably does... although I'm not entirely sure. It certainly wasn't a hugely popular game on the PSX.

Are you guys aware that Lord British(Richard Garriot) funded all the games?! He did fund the Crusader series.
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Origin was part of a major corporation when Crusader was released -- RG didn't fund it. He *did* go to bat for the idea, though...
 
Wow Bandit you know everything that happened in Origin. It's as if you worked there.
Since Chris Roberts left Digital Anvil, has he retired?! Whatever happened to his brother and Tony Zurovev?
I heard Zurovec was working on a game called Loose Canon.

And is it true that Roberts and gariot couldn't get along?!
 
Since Chris Roberts left Digital Anvil, has he retired?! Whatever happened to his brother and Tony Zurovev?
I heard Zurovec was working on a game called Loose Canon.
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Chris Roberts is working on film projects these days... last anyone heard, he was working with a production house called "Ascendent Pictures". One of these project is the rumored Wing Commander TV show...

I'm not really sure where Erin and Tony are. I know they stayed at DA after he left, and that Erin did some work on Brute Force (DA's X-Box title in development now)... but I don't believe either are with the company now (Erin *might* be...). Loose Cannon was cancelled just after Microsoft took over DA.

And is it true that Roberts and gariot couldn't get along?!
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That's certainly the rumor -- and they're certainly two people with very different goals career-wise...
 
Indeed, it seems difficult to find anything post-DA about Tony Zurovec or Loose Cannon. A google search only brought up a few foreign-language Ubi Soft press releases (apparently, the English site doesn't maintain an archive) about Ubi Soft acquiring the publishing rights for both games. Also found this short article, which claims that Loose Cannon had already cost $5 million at the time that Ubi Soft acquired it. Anyway, apparently after Ubi Soft got the rights, Sinister Games was supposed to finish it off. Interestingly enough, their website claims that they are in fact still working on Loose Cannon. However, this seems very doubtful (though, given the time Freelancer took, not impossible, I suppose).
 
Hopefully Tony is working on something, his crusader:no remorse made me stay up late at night!
And I couln't get the chance to play the sequel!

I checked Sinister games website and how long has Soldier been in development?!:eek:
 
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