Discussion on the Nephilim...

X

X_FIREFALCON

Spaceman
Hi, WC Community.

Some of you may recall my first post asking a few questions on WC history, the Sivar Prophecy, and the race of Star Gods or Nephilim (the bugs we all know and love from the last game in the series).

I recall in that thread hearing some speculation and facts hinting on the fact that the Nephilim may not necessarily be the true Star Gods, but rather be under the direction and/or organization of them, or at the very least be but one race involved in the newly erupting conflict with the Kilrathi Empire and the Confederation.

As mentioned in my earlier post, I have toyed with the idea of writing my own unofficial fan fiction picking up from where the last game left off, hence my incessant questioning of the Wing Commander Universe past and present in an attempt (no matter how potentially futile) to remain true to the spirit and nature of all the races, attitudes, technology, etc. of the game series.

This all being said, I was wondering what your thoughts might be on the idea of the Nephilim (bugs) not being a singular race based on the Sivar Prophecy or the annihilation of the Confederation and the Kilrathi Empire.

I have a feeling this would be treading in unknown territory as there is likely no evidence to back up any suggestions or opinions related to this. I am, however, curious what the thoughts of the community are in regards to this. I could simply formulate my own ideas, but I'm curious what the rest of you think.

LOAF and all other forum vets, I apologize if this was an earlier topic of discussion that I'm bringing back to the forefront (i.e. if it's something that's already been discussed in an earlier post).

Your thoughts?

- FireFalcon ~};^
 
One of the common bug taunts is something along the lines of "You will fall before the Aligned peoples!"

This definately gives support to the theory that they are a shock/advance troop. I recall hearing someone mention rumors that there were supposed to be a second and third sequel to prophecy introducing us to not one but two more Alien races belonging to this "Aligned Peoples"
 
It makes sense, the Nephilim are bugs which is why there's so many of them which is why they're more expendable. I guess a galactic power like "The Aligned Peoples" would choose them as their forward attack troops. Most races are probably overwhelmed by the Nephilim easily which probably makes the other races of the "Aligned Peoples" not have to fight too often.

It's an interesting theory and I'd really, really love to see a new Wing Commander game that takes this direction.
 
Bottom of this page, an 'unofficial' future/backstory source about the Nephilim and the end of Blair. Take it as you will.

C-ya
 
Interesting...

Thanks for your replies, guys, and especially "Viper61." Just a question about what I read, though...there's reference to Blair potentially becoming the third horseman or something like that. What exactly does that mean? Is that some kind of reference to an earlier part of Wing Commander history, or is it in keeping with the whole mythology of Wing Commander and basically the Prophecy's relationship to the biblical apocalypse? If it's the latter, what does the "third horseman" refer to? I wasn't aware that the four horsemen had number designations associated with them. If this reference is to the biblical four horsemen of the apocalypse - pestilence, famine, war, and death (I believe) - which is this saying Blair would be? Following along this principle, are we to assume that Blair lives and just simply goes to the dark side (and no that wasn't intended to be a pun on Mark Hamill's acting career), but basically do a bit of a flip-flop like Tolwyn did in WC4 and become the enemy of the Confederation and peace?

Any additional thoughts or other notes? Anyone?

And a few more points of consideration based around this whole concept...does "Aligned" mean basically that the bugs and this whole allied coalition of races they are affiliated with have chosen not a balance between good and evil, but rather have aligned themselves fully with evil? Where as we, the "unaligned," are still wishy-washy, being constantly pulled back and forth between the two forces - good & evil, light & dark, etc.? And therefore, by the "Aligned's" definition, we would be inferior because we don't embrace one side wholeheartedly or something? Any thoughts on this?

Additionally...is there ever any more information given about these other alien species that are part of the "Aligned," or the ultimate force that's playing the puppet-master behind the "Aligned?" And given that the bugs are referred to as the Nephilim...what kind of biblical name do you figure would be given to these other races or the entity behind them?

- FireFalcon ~};^
 
I would think that "Aligned Peoples" means that the three races are aligned together, but that is just a guess.
 
Damn, Wing Commander would be so much cooler if it took on the philosophical concepts of "what is good and evil?"
it's one thing to be a game...but to be a game that makes us question the very essence of what we are, what we choose to be...

man, I'm in over my head. time to go play some nice, straightforward, blow up the red dots, Secret Ops.

That was a really interesting read, makes me wish that the next WC games had been released- I'm interested in meeting the other two races and this "supreme entity"

Imagine going up against Blair, having to destroy him for the good of the confederation? yeep!
 
Imagine going up against Blair, having to destroy him for the good of the confederation? yeep!
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing. I would love to see what the other races would've been too, I was unhappy with the Nephilem, I mean really, bug aliens? Who hasn't done the generic bug alien thing before? The Kilrathi were at least a little more original.
 
Spien said:
The Kilrathi were at least a little more original.
Click to expand...

The Kzinti of the Known Space universe, the Caitians of the Star Trek RPGs, and several other universe's aliens would like a word with you, if you think that cat-aliens are more original than bug-aliens. :D
 
Have you ever read any of the Man-Kzin War books? Something tells me Chris Roberts was a Larry Niven fan.

One thing though, is that the Kzin are honorable to a fault--which makes them somewhat predictable and easy to defeat. The Kilrathi are far more devious, and really only give lip-service to honor and the like.
 
Forgot about those books entirely... The episode of the Star Trek cartoon that was mentioned with the Kzinti was actually inspired by those books and supposedly a homage to them, except the cartoon episode was rather dumb. I'm sure Robert's took more than one idea from them as well.

I actually have played a Caitian myself in Star Trek RPG's because I love the Kilrathi even though the Caitian race is docile instead of warlike. I still think cat aliens are a little more on the original side. Every Sci-fi and its cousin has bug aliens. Maybe I just think cat aliens are cooler and I'm blinding myself a bit, must be the claws.
 
The sci-fi universe needs more space cows.

And to answer FireFalcon, I personally think he (Mark Day) was just being melodromatic and speaking figuratively in describing what Blair was to become, not that he was going to literally become a horesman of the apacolypse. Also, the third horseman of the apocalypse is famine, which I'm sure Day just didn't know which horeman was technically which as an evil Blair would much closer resemble any of the 3 others (Conquest, War and Death . .. I never tried to figure out where Pestilence came from), just saying someone is a horseman of the apocalypse is usually enough.

As for 'aligned', I think you might be reading too much into it. With the simplistic approach the bugs seemed to take, its my opinion that 'unaligned' means not in league with their 3 races. If you are not a member of the United Nations, for example, you are 'unaligned' in regards to that organization.

Edit: Oops, just realized I missed a question. As for the other races, as with alot of the Nephilim backstory and such, its pretty much free reign. As to what they would technically be called, I think you could look into biblical texts and find some minor/major demons/entities who controlled lesser beings. Maybe watching Enterprise has influenced me in some way, but personally I'd call the entire civilization the Nephilim and give each individual race a 'sub-name' (Like the Xindi had the Aquatics, Herborials, Retilians, etc), depeding on whatever outward qualities you give them.

C-ya
 
Hmmm...

Again, thanks for the responses, fellas.

Well, history wasn't long enough to prove either of us right or wrong, Viper61, but I get your meaning. Perhaps you're right - maybe I'm just reading too much into things. But I've been giving this a bit of thought...

Most of the time when dealing with relations between groups of people or entities, terms like "alliance" are most typically thrown about. I've read definitions of "aligned," though, and I guess it could be seen as a synonym. But really, when I hear the word "alignment," I just envision all these role-playing games where you choose between varying levels of good and evil for a particular character, and then I got into thinking how this might be applied on a grander scale...

If groups are "aligned" or "allied" or whatever word you wanted to use...I think there's an understood underlying connection between the groups at some kind of fundamental, moral level. Either both groups stand for the same things or against the same things.

Now, you take the bugs, for example...maybe it's just me, but it seems like the game and written descriptions of the bugs hint at the fact that they represent all the things of nightmares - they're vast, numerous, dark, mysterious...associated with void, loosely defined through the Sivar Prophecy's Kn'Thrak as evil (as Finley tells Casey at one point, I think), and even likened to death itself by Blair after his encounter. They are fascinated by our darker nature. The Kilrathi would refer to them as their Star Gods, I suppose, with the whole idea that this race (or alignment of races) was responsible for setting the course of Kilrathi history - making them the expansionist warmongering race they were when the Confederation first encountered them. Zero likens them to the Nephilim which, assuming it isn't a direct relation to the mythical Nephilim (which who can say for sure), seems to suggest that they are evil abominations. Being the progeny of fallen angels would suggest, at least in my mind, that they are the sons and daughters of a great evil in biblical terms (whether you would believe in the bible's definition of ultimate "good" and ultimate "evil" is, of course, open to debate).

As for Blair...I can't really comment much on anything there, as nothing has ever been set in stone regarding his survival (or lack thereof, depending on who you talk to) following the Nephilim incursion in Kilrah. As for the horsemen, it's hard to say whether this reference was being used as a metaphor or a realistic relation to biblical prophecy text. I personally was aware of the four horsemen as being pestilience, war, famine, and death, but perhaps I am mistaken (it just seems to me that conquest and war are too similar to be considered separate and distinct, whereas pestilence seems to be its own horrible evil...and most stories about the end of the world seem to have some consistency in mentioning great plagues that would decimate the population). Again, perhaps I'm mistaken; I'm not a devout enough Bible-reader to argue such a moot point.

I guess my problem with this either way - whether metaphorically or literally - is that I just can't envision someone of Blair's caliber falling so far from grace, and basically becoming a whole other threat to the Confederation...not after all he personally sacrificed to bring it to its current glory. That just doesn't make sense to me as far as a consistent storyline is concerned. But again, no point in arguing this, is there? The second chapter here never got written...

I definitely like your suggestion about making the "Nephilim" be an all-encompassing term to refer to these 3 races "aligned" together. Then, the only thing that remains is how exactly to design the other two races involved here, or the entity at the head of this dark alliance. Does anyone have any suggestions other than space cows? (Sorry...I just can't possibly perceive a way to make cows look scary!) :)

Thanks for all your comments, fellas - Viper61 especially! I hope I'm not out of line in conveying my own thoughts on these matters; I completely respect everyone's standpoint as far as things go. Please just keep sharing your ideas about the Nephilim, this alliance of 3 races, the fate and future (if any) of Blair, etc. Please bear in mind that this whole story I'm planning is meant solely as a freebie for me and anyone else who cares to read what I write (i.e. the WC community, if it doesn't completely suck, that is!), so I have no intention of making any money off your input (besides, I doubt EA would ever give me the rights anyway!). :)

Thanks guys!

- FireFalcon ~};^
 
X_FIREFALCON said:
I definitely like your suggestion about making the "Nephilim" be an all-encompassing term to refer to these 3 races "aligned" together. Then, the only thing that remains is how exactly to design the other two races involved here, or the entity at the head of this dark alliance. Does anyone have any suggestions other than space cows? (Sorry...I just can't possibly perceive a way to make cows look scary!)
Click to expand...

Space moose and space owl?
 
Hmmm...

Pretty good, Dyret. :)

I think I'll pass on the moose...they just don't have an intimidating look about em.

Might be able to do something similar to an Owl in appearance...some have almost ghost-like faces, so that might work on some level. Of course, then there's a bit of a concern there as well...might just look like a cheap ripoff of the Firekkans, only with a flatter face. :)

- FireFalcon ~};^
 
A space moose once bit my sister. A shameless bite at Monty Python' Holy Grail credits subtitles. Sorry I couldnt resist.
 
Maybe one of them should be some sort of insect, like a wasp or something. Here is an idea, one of them (maybe the entity) should be some sort of dog/wolf thing. That could be a reason that the Kilrathi fear them so much.
 
The Nephilem fly ships that are fish shaped and named after fish...

Maybe a possible hint about one of the other races? Possibly the technical race that came up with the ship designs flown by "aligned" members. Fish people would be kind of weird, so I'm thinking some kind of amphibious race would be cool.
 
As for the ships being fish shaped, one can only speculate, but remember that human tacticians gave the ships their english names. It's highly unlikely that Alien linguists created a word that is spelled and sounds exactly like "moray" to describe a long, yellow-green eel-creature with a mean bite.
 
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