Confed politics, and other things I find strange...


Rear Admiral
even when the Harrier is operating with a light load of weapons, crews still usually take off conventionally because of the amount of fuel saved. Now, even a "conventional" takeoff in a harrier is short relative to conventional aircraft because of the extreme nature of the harrier's thrust vectoring.

which is very helpfull when you have such small carriers as the Royal Navy!


Vice Admiral
Actually, I do know the JSF can do it to:

(CTOL), (STOVL), (CV) are the versions the dutch airforce is purchasing.
(peronally, I would have preferred to go with the Eurofighter program, since it would contribute to local industries)

And competition keeps technology on the edge, I think one countries JSF's team would be dying for a demonstration dogfight with a Typhoon. Both craft appear about equal to me, but I am no avionics expert.

My intention to say this, is that when a ship is designed, it is designed for a task


gh0d (Administrator)
Edfilho said:
Could the Harrier ever do a full vertical take off while fully loaded with weapons?
Of course. Then it would use the other half of the fuel tank to land.

Don't be silly.

It could fly to the outer edge of the base perimeter first, after burning all that gas on takeoff. :D

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
One of the things that always bothered me about the Wing Commander community is the number of post-war supercarriers people have designed.

This is an odd thing to say... one paragraph after pointing out that the peacetime American Navy is based around supercarriers rather than battleships.

It also isn't a legitimate complaint about the community in so much as it is the problem with every sci fi fandom in the universe. Every thirteen year old in the universe wants to talk about the best possible super-starship -- you'll find it with the Star Trek people, the Star Wars guys, the Battlestar Galactica weiridos and so forth. I would argue that a bigger danger is taking such things *seriously* enough to worry about their effect on the community as a whole.

A ship is designed for a role it needs to fill, ever noticed that the space shuttle does not have the f-117 stealth in it, carries no nukes or guns, can not land on water, launch and land vertically like a harrier or (one version of) the eurofighter?

I'm moderately sure the space shuttle does launch vertically.


Vice Admiral
Hmm, Typhoon vs JSF? Interesting.

Well, I'd wager that alot of it would simply come down to pilot skill. Many modern jet aircraft are so close in performance specifications and capabilities largely because we're close to the limit of what the human body can sustain.

That said, I think that a huge determining factor in the outcome of a dogfight today (and in the past) is who sees who first. While the specifics are still classified, the F35 is going to incorporate a high degree of stealth and have a small radar signature as a result. Much of the technology from the F22 is going to find its way onto the JSF. The typhoon is a marvelous aircraft, but I'm fairly certain the pilot of the JSF would see the Typhoon first; it's difficult to fight someone you can't see.