Command Crew of Capital Ships

[X_FIREFALCON]

He's credited as Daniel Wilford in Wing Commander IV, the Official Guide to Prophecy calls him Eugene Wilford.

Geez...that makes it clear...

So is one favored over the other as more authentic and reliable? Or are they (somewhat) interchangeable? Or does "Daniel" mean the same thing in some Border World dialect that "Eugene" means in some Confederation dialect?

Sorry to nitpick...but all of this has a slight impact on that story I'm working on. With all the liberties I'm perhaps taking, I'd like to be as accurate as possible with details like this. (Mind you, I'm not hijacking this thread...just asking for some miscellaneous clarification if someone would be so generous as to provide it.)

Gratiously,
FireFalcon ~};^

 

[Bandit LOAF]

It's kind of an odd problem that's unusually prevalent in Wing Commander's background fiction -- Hans Kruger versus Max Kruger, Lawrence Sansky versus Jay Sansky, Wayne Banbridge versus Spencer Banbridge, etc.

Usually we just stick the names to gether -- Jay Lawrence Sansky, Wayne Spencer Banbridge, Daniel Eugene Wilford and so forth.

 

[Quarto]

I would suggest calling him Eugene. If I had to offer a simple explanation for this Daniel/Eugene thing, I'd say that Daniel is his first name, Eugene is his second name, and for whatever reason, he prefers to be called Eugene (...because this is the only name we ever see any person in the WC universe calling him with informally).

 

[X_FIREFALCON]

Thanks, guys.

Interesting commentary there, LOAF. I didn't realize things like this were so prominent...kind of confuses things. And to think, here I am trying to be anal-retentive as possible to keep my facts straight!

Quarto, thanks for your advice. Sounds good to me. At the very least, it makes my life a lot easier, not having to go back and change ever reference to a "Eugene" Wilford.

Thanks, guys...I'll duck out of this thread again now so that it can hopefully revert back to its original discussion about command crews or something more closely related to that. Again, sorry for sparking a tangential discussion, but once again, my thanks to you, LOAF and Quarto, for cluing me in and giving me a better sense of direction.

- FireFalcon ~};^

 

[Delance]

He's returning with a team of young human pilots who will command the Ghorah Khar squadrons.

And when they do that, they are going to be human pilots with Kilrathi on their wings. Those squadrons should be composed of Kilrathi, since they are part of the Ghorah Khar resistance.

 

[Dahan]

I have to admit that seeing Hobbes turning rogue was very upsetting I had always though that he would be good all through the end. If there was a rogue operative within Confed I would prefer someone else. But then we cannot change what the storyline had plan for us.

But then Hobbes was lock and condition to be a sleeper agent to some degree and that was probably what the Kilrathi Prince and his lackey hadn in mind when they released Hobbes....tis a pity.
But then again I am sure there are other Kilrathi who are not sleepers who are actually rebels who opposed the Empire's intention of fighting the Confederation

 

[Bandit LOAF]

And when they do that, they are going to be human pilots with Kilrathi on their wings. Those squadrons should be composed of Kilrathi, since they are part of the Ghorah Khar resistance.

The briefing doesn't say anything like that.

 

[Dahan]

Did we ever know how many Kilrathi ever served with the Confederation forces?
Space Force Pilots
Space Force Marines
Naval Forces
Military Intelligence
etc

 

[Haesslich]

Did we ever know how many Kilrathi ever served with the Confederation forces?
Space Force Pilots
Space Force Marines
Naval Forces
Military Intelligence
etc

We only know of one who ever did so - Hobbes, also known as the former khantahr of the Ras Nik'hra, Ralgha nar Hhallas. There was a Kilrathi scientist who defected, and is mentioned in the Academy manual (Hajjnah), along with the Kilrathi on the colonies like Ghorah Khar. However, it's never mentioned if any of them served in the armed forces or in other areas where they could've gathered vital intelligence, the way that Hobbes ended up doing.

 

[Delance]

The briefing doesn't say anything like that.

It does.

Your main objective is to keep these boys alive, Maverick... we need them to lead the resistance.

They need the boys to lead the Kilrathi resistence. Unless the Ghorah Khar resistance is composed of humans, the human pilots will be leading Kilrathi.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

They need the boys to lead the Kilrathi resistence. Unless the Ghorah Khar resistance is composed of humans, the human pilots will be leading Kilrathi.

Once again, it doesn't say that.

 

[Haesslich]

They need the boys to lead the Kilrathi resistence. Unless the Ghorah Khar resistance is composed of humans, the human pilots will be leading Kilrathi.

It should be noted that the humans there are leading the resistance against the Empire of Kilrah, but that doesn't mean that they're leading waves of Kilrathi fighter pilots either - it just means that they've got an important role in maintaining the colony's sovereignity against the Empire.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

You're taking "resistance" to mean something it doesn't. Ghorah Khar has been part of the Confederation for over a decade at this point. We're not talking about a band of desparate civilians taking back the planet... we're talking about the *military force* that will be defending the planet against a new, external attack.

The Confederation has a force stationed on the planet -- we learn in that same series that it's commanded by a human, Colonel Marnier. Hobbes, Blair, Edmond and Paladin are part of the *resistance*. Ladyman, Starr, Rhino, Cafrelli, Landis, Potter, Rodriguez and Hathaway are part of the *resistance*. Heck, Bear, Buell (heh, Buell is reinforcing) and the crew of the Concordia are part of the *resistance*.

There may be Kilrathi serving under humans on Ghorah Khar. We have absolutely no idea - the dialogue does *not* state this at all and of the many new characters referenced among Ghorah Khar's defenders, none are Kilrathi.

 

[Delance]

Resistence implies notion of Kilrathi fighting with Confed against the Emperor. Look at how it's phrased: "where he's organizing the resistance and training the rebel leaders." Are Edmond and Blair rebel leaders as well? No, they can't be rebels because they were not subjects to begin with. Rebel Leaders must come from the Kilrathi that were once under the Imperial rule. The human characters have joined up with the resistence in order to defend Ghorah Khar, and the presence of rebel leaders makes it clear that Kilrathi are part of the *military force* protecting the planet.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Except what we're told is that Hobbes is "training the rebel leaders", and then that the people he's training are *FOUR HUMANS*. Your argument will never get anywhere because we are NEVER TOLD ABOUT ANY KILRATHI.

 

[Delance]

Except what we're told is that Hobbes is "training the rebel leaders", and then that the people he's training are *FOUR HUMANS*.

If those *HUMANS* are *REBEL LEADERS*, they are rebelling against what? If there's a human-exclusive military force defending Ghorah Khar, why even bother call them rebels? They would not be rebelling against anything.

The TCS Gettysbury had human rebel leaders, because they were, you know, actually rebelling against something. Unless those humans are former Kilrathi slaves, it makes absolutely no sense to call them that. Rebels imply former subjects, and that means Kilrathi, even if for some unknown reason this idea seems so unpopular.

Why would the entire military effort to defend Ghorah Khar be exclusively human with the sole exception of Hobbes? And what sudden surge of pacifism would all those Kilrathi confederation citzens not take in arms to defend their homeworld? More interestingly, why would a regular Confed military force be called “resistence” and regular Confed squadron commanders be called “rebel leaders” for no apparent reason?

Your argument will never get anywhere because we are NEVER TOLD ABOUT ANY KILRATHI.

However, we are NEVER TOLD THAT THERE WERE NO KILRATHI EITHER. We are given a few names, not the entire resistance effort. If the entire military effort to defend Ghorah Khar was composed *EXCLUSIVELY* of humans with the sole exception of Hobbes, it would make no sense at all to call them *REBELS* or *RESISTENCE*.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

If those *HUMANS* are *REBEL LEADERS*, they are rebelling against what? If there's a human-exclusive military force defending Ghorah Khar, why even bother call them rebels? They would not be rebelling against anything.

What are you talking about? This isn't some academic discussion - the squadron leaders in question are the people you fly with in the mission... it's three human pilots.

The TCS Gettysbury had human rebel leaders, because they were, you know, actually rebelling against something. Unless those humans are former Kilrathi slaves, it makes absolutely no sense to call them that. Rebels imply former subjects, and that means Kilrathi, even if for some unknown reason this idea seems so unpopular.

Why would the entire military effort to defend Ghorah Khar be exclusively human with the sole exception of Hobbes? And what sudden surge of pacifism would all those Kilrathi confederation citzens not take in arms to defend their homeworld? More interestingly, why would a regular Confed military force be called “resistence” and regular Confed squadron commanders be called “rebel leaders” for no apparent reason?

Perhaps the military would be 'exclusively human with the sole exception of Hobbes' because, oh, I don't know, maybe Chris' original statement that there was no evidence that there were any Kilrathi in the Confederation military? You know, the initial claim you were sure this squadron briefing was explicit proof against.

It seems to me that you don't understand the word resistance... it simply means opposition. The word is not implicitly linked with rebellion or insurgency or any of those things that you're assuming it to mean. In fact, on the occasions that it is used to mean such things it's used as a proper noun - Resistance.

I don't doubt that there are Kilrathi forces defending Ghorah Khar - it seems likely (but not explicit) that that's what the beginning of the briefing is referring to (rebel leaders). What I do doubt is that there's any proof that the human forces are integrated with Kilrathi in any way - all we ever see is a human military commander, human squadron commanders and human pilots. I do not see this as proof that there are Kilrathi serving in a human chain of command at all.

However, we are NEVER TOLD THAT THERE WERE NO KILRATHI EITHER.

Yes, this is exactly what I said. YOU'RE the one who is trying to use this mission briefing in order to prove a point -- and there's *NO EVIDENCE HERE*.

 

[Dyret]

So what you're saying is that renegade kilrathi have their own militia, and they're only allied with confed(not part of it). But then what happened to them when they won? Were they forced into confed? Did they remain neutral? Did they join the kilrathi again after the empire had fallen? I'm just curious... I can't remember this being mentioned anywhere.

 

[Nomad Terror]

No, he's not saying that at all.

He's saying that there are several possibilities due to the lack of any sort of evidence supporting or contrary to any of them.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

So what you're saying is that renegade kilrathi have their own militia, and they're only allied with confed(not part of it). But then what happened to them when they won? Were they forced into confed? Did they remain neutral? Did they join the kilrathi again after the empire had fallen? I'm just curious... I can't remember this being mentioned anywhere.

Ghorah Khar was part of the Confederation. The point of this thread is that we just don't know what the local militia was like. There's no evidence that or even good reasoning that it was integrated into a Space Forces chain of command -- when Allied troops landed at Normandy, the French Resistance didn't magically become American lieutenants.

The Ghorah Kharrans who fought for their independance probably went back to their real lives - there's no evidence that they're serving in the same chain of command as the many human pilots we see in Special Operations 1.

Ghorah Khar left the Confederation at some point following the end of the war.