Border Worlds Fighters

Most likely, the Border Worlds has the majority of its fighters coming from the WC1-WC2 era stock that was retired after the False Peace in 2668. So most likely you'd see these ships, and the guys from UE apparently agree with this.

Light Fighters: Banshee, Ferret, Epee, Stiletto
Medium Fighters: Vindicator, Rapier II, Scimitar (Prehaps some dustoff Hellcats?)
Heavy Fighters: Raptor, Sabre
Bombers: Avenger, Sabre-D, Broadsword

Capital Ships:

Frigates: Canearvans (As they are dirt cheap and there must be 10,000 of them), and any older war designs.
Destroyers: Older Sheffields, Gilgameshes, Exeters, Durangos
Light Cruisers: Older Savannahs, Mannasas
Heavy Cruisers: A few older Tallahassees and some leftover Waterloo's.
Light Carriers: Rangers and some of the Wake Island (Tarawa) class
Fleet Carriers: Concordias (Like the Lex, probably older), and the two (purely specalitive) Bengals that the UBW has in UE.
 
Sylvester said:
Most likely, the Border Worlds has the majority of its fighters coming from the WC1-WC2 era stock that was retired after the False Peace in 2668. So most likely you'd see these ships, and the guys from UE apparently agree with this.

Light Fighters: Banshee, Ferret, Epee, Stiletto
Medium Fighters: Vindicator, Rapier II, Scimitar (Prehaps some dustoff Hellcats?)
Heavy Fighters: Raptor, Sabre
Bombers: Avenger, Sabre-D, Broadsword

Capital Ships:

Frigates: Canearvans (As they are dirt cheap and there must be 10,000 of them), and any older war designs.
Destroyers: Older Sheffields, Gilgameshes, Exeters, Durangos
Light Cruisers: Older Savannahs, Mannasas
Heavy Cruisers: A few older Tallahassees and some leftover Waterloo's.
Light Carriers: Rangers and some of the Wake Island (Tarawa) class
Fleet Carriers: Concordias (Like the Lex, probably older), and the two (purely specalitive) Bengals that the UBW has in UE.
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Did you by chance miss this post?

Haesslich said:
There's precedent for new fighters that we don't see in the Confederation's front-line carriers, ones which may be built by non-Confed contractors (as I recall the Vindicator and Banshee are) who either retool an existing frame or scratch-build something that's not quite up to ConFleet standards but which is a sight better than the reconditioned flying-collections-of-surplus-parts that we read about in the novels. Given that Intrepid was their premiere carrier for that part of the conflict, it makes sense to expect that their 'best' ships be on them, even if they were half-junk. Or at least, the ships that we fly should be the best ones. For all we know, the other squadrons on the ship ARE flying Ferrets or Rapiers.
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As far as capships go, what we've seen of them through False Colors and the WC4 game suggests that their capship inventory's pretty light. The Landreich is NOT the same as the UBW (as LOAF took some pains to point out), but both of them are on the fronteirs and have to scavenge their craft from Confed's surplus or out of the junkyard. This means Concordias are definitely out - they're considered front-line craft, and are either scrapped or refitted should they be damaged enough. Exeters and maybe Gilgamesh-class destroyers, given their number, I can see the UBW having, but the Sheffield-class destroyers are probably one of the newest Confed designs out there as of 2671, which means that they're not likely to be sold as scrap or surplus to another nation-state, unless there are technology-transfer agreements in place.

As I recall, the Savannah and Tallahassee-class ships are also rather new... which again makes their appearance as 'older' ships in the UBW fleet rather unjustified - these were considered front-line craft during the end of the Kilrathi War, so having them surplused out after a few years of service is an unreasonable expectation unless it was that difficult to repair, as in the case of the Tarawa.

Basically, while I can see the UBW picking up destroyers and maybe the odd elderly cruiser, expecting them to pick up what were front-line craft and which were as hard to find as hen's teeth throughout the war period (heavy carriers) is highly unlikely. Even light carriers like the Rangers would be difficult, given that the UBW apparently was reduced to refitting destroyers to act as makeshift carriers, which suggests that even cruisers were extremely rare in their navy.
 
Dundradal said:
I have small problem with the UBW having unique fighters. They are an entity which is very young in wc4, to have the abilty to construct its own fighters is a large effort.
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It is well worth noting that most WC fighters are manufactured by private companies. Even top-notch experimental ships like the Excalibur come from private manufacturers. What's more, we know that there are various mass-produced fighters out there that are not used by Confed (which seems to be your definition of 'unique'). So why wouldn't the UBW be able to get unique fighters?

Also as I've already pointed out in an earlier discussion on this subject, the UBW did not magically pop up out of nowhere - most or all of those ships already existed prior to the UBW's formation, and were utilised by various local militias and colonial governments. And these militias must have been pretty well-organised, if Confed was willing to lend carriers to them (which, according to the WC4 novel, they did).
 
Quarto said:
It is well worth noting that most WC fighters are manufactured by private companies. Even top-notch experimental ships like the Excalibur come from private manufacturers. What's more, we know that there are various mass-produced fighters out there that are not used by Confed (which seems to be your definition of 'unique'). So why wouldn't the UBW be able to get unique fighters?

Also as I've already pointed out in an earlier discussion on this subject, the UBW did not magically pop up out of nowhere - most or all of those ships already existed prior to the UBW's formation, and were utilised by various local militias and colonial governments. And these militias must have been pretty well-organised, if Confed was willing to lend carriers to them (which, according to the WC4 novel, they did).
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We do know that there are companies in WC that do produce fighters for militias, private interests, and anyone who can afford them - remember that Privateer introduced the Demon and Centurions, which are primarily used by bounty hunters. As you've noted, the UBW did have militias which would have included fighter complements of their own.... and Confed didn't apparently buy every class of fighter that these companies produced. With those that didn't get purchased by Confed, I'd suspect they'd try to recoup some of their development costs by selling those 'failed' designs with more commonly-available technology to system governments or individuals.

Still, as far as carriers go, I doubt they'd lend out the Concordia-class ships, given their chronic shortage of heavy carrier platforms throughout the war - Rangers I can just barely see them lending, and ditto the easy-to-build Escort Carriers like the Tarawa-style ships. Destroyers and cruisers aren't a problem either, especially given that they seem to have hundreds of the former, and build enough to keep themselves relatively modern.
 
Haesslich said:
Still, as far as carriers go, I doubt they'd lend out the Concordia-class ships, given their chronic shortage of heavy carrier platforms throughout the war - Rangers I can just barely see them lending, and ditto the easy-to-build Escort Carriers like the Tarawa-style ships. Destroyers and cruisers aren't a problem either, especially given that they seem to have hundreds of the former, and build enough to keep themselves relatively modern.
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Yep, I'd agree there (which is why in UE, the only Concordia-class carrier in the BW is the Princeton - the explanation being that after capturing it in WC4, they ended up leasing it from Confed afterwards rather than returning it).
The only reason I brought up the carriers that Confed loaned them is because they're proof that the groups that later came to be the BW (henceforth to be referred to as pre-BW, since it's much shorter :p) were not as resource-strapped as some people here have argued. After all, the pre-BW would not bother loaning a carrier (fleet or escort, makes little difference in this case) if they didn't have the resources (above all, planes) to use it.
 
The Vindicator is listed as a medium fighter, although it is much more like a fighter-bomber. Personally one of my favorites! If any of the BW fighters previously served in Confed (in some capacity or another), the Vindicator has the Confed look. The Banshee looks almost like a Kilrathi fighter.

Just a thought, could the Vindicator have served Confed in some role that we haven't thought about. The Vindicator could have served in the Confederation Army or Marine Forces as a surface suppression craft, or could have been a Space Force aerial fighter converted for space operations. Any thoughts?
 
Dragon1 said:
The Vindicator is listed as a medium fighter, although it is much more like a fighter-bomber. Personally one of my favorites! If any of the BW fighters previously served in Confed (in some capacity or another), the Vindicator has the Confed look. The Banshee looks almost like a Kilrathi fighter.

Just a thought, could the Vindicator have served Confed in some role that we haven't thought about. The Vindicator could have served in the Confederation Army or Marine Forces as a surface suppression craft, or could have been a Space Force aerial fighter converted for space operations. Any thoughts?
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I'd have to say most of those fighters were either scratch-built, constructed in private workshops, or else were militia-issue for most of the Kilrathi War. We do know private fighter construction does take place; the Talons in the Gemini Sector are proof of this. We also know that civilians can buy fighters, though they don't end up being as good as military issue equipment - the Demons and Centurions are two such craft that seem to be relatively common. Whether the Banshee and Vindicators were militia-issue or adapted from civillian use is anyone's guess at this point. Or they could've been second-line fighters which were later sold off once the Kilrathi War ended, because of cutbacks in the defense budget.
 
Haesslich said:
Whether the Banshee and Vindicators were militia-issue or adapted from civillian use is anyone's guess at this point. Or they could've been second-line fighters which were later sold off once the Kilrathi War ended, because of cutbacks in the defense budget.
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It could also be that the company or companies that designed the fighters used by the UBW designed the fighters while competing for the contract for the '2669' production line of ConFed fighters. Perhaps the Arrow, Longbow, T-Bolt, and Hellcat won the contract and the other companies fished their product around to other buyers.
 
It should also be noted that in AS and FA it is noted that most of the Landreich fighters are ancient models that have totally outragous modifications (say a ferret Hunter was interested in flying).
 
Dundradal said:
It should also be noted that in AS and FA it is noted that most of the Landreich fighters are ancient models that have totally outragous modifications (say a ferret Hunter was interested in flying).
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Half of them are still old fighters as in False Colors, but given that the Intrepid is the premiere carrier platform of the UBW right now, we could probably expect not to be flying said scratch-built and retrofitted Hornets against Dragons. :D

Or, at the very least, Blair isn't expected to fly Ferrets and Sabres, because it'd be too like WC2.
 
As I see it, the Vindicator had been the backbone of the Border Worlds Militia starting around the WC3 period. Its torpedo loadout and atmospheric capability made it a decent jack-of-all-trades unless something heavier than a Fralthi was coming.

The Banshee and Avenger, however, were somewhat jury-rigged as things go. The Banshee was a trainer or light patrol fighter that got seriously upgraded (the scattergun, heavier shields), while the Avenger was converted from an armored shuttle to fill the need for a heavy bomber that was smaller and faster than the Broadsword.
 
The Vindicator looks more like a project confed in the end didn't end up wanting and it got cast aside, the UBW maybe picked up a few from the builder....
 
Dundradal said:
The Vindicator looks more like a project confed in the end didn't end up wanting and it got cast aside, the UBW maybe picked up a few from the builder....
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The looks of a ship are entirely irrelevant, though, because all the ships are made by the same group of artists (although, of course, only one person would work on each ship in particular), with no attempt to make the BW ships as stylystically different from Confed as the Kilrathi were. So, the Vindicator just looks like a human ship.
 
Quarto said:
The looks of a ship are entirely irrelevant, though, because all the ships are made by the same group of artists (although, of course, only one person would work on each ship in particular), with no attempt to make the BW ships as stylystically different from Confed as the Kilrathi were. So, the Vindicator just looks like a human ship.
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I disagree. Look at the Banshee and the Vindicator. They are totally different in design appearance. The Dragon, also a human ship, looks nothing like any other Confed or Border Worlds ships.
 
Dragon1 said:
I disagree. Look at the Banshee and the Vindicator. They are totally different in design appearance. The Dragon, also a human ship, looks nothing like any other Confed or Border Worlds ships.
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but the Dragon is a covert ops fighter that was developed in secret. and in the WC4 novel, Blair says how similar the Dragon is to the Excalibur and that the Excal is a predecessor of the Dragon.
 
The more striking visual differences between the Border Worlds fighters, especially when compared to the Confederations fighters could be that the Border Worlds were made by different companies, while the Confederation's fighters in WC3 and 4 were primarily made by one company.
 
ck9791 said:
The more striking visual differences between the Border Worlds fighters, especially when compared to the Confederations fighters could be that the Border Worlds were made by different companies, while the Confederation's fighters in WC3 and 4 were primarily made by one company.
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Actually, there were two companies involved: McCall Industries (Longbow, Thunderbolt), and Douglas Aerospace (Excalibur, Bearcat, Hellcat, Arrow). The Border Worlds' ships are from a variety of sources - the retrofitted or refurbished antiques of the novels, all the way to the Confed stuff we steal, up to some of these unusual if old second-line fighters by the likes of Psaab Engineering (Avenger), Verier Underground (Banshee), and Murphy Labs (Vindicator)..

The main difference is that the ships we flew for Confed were that they were chosen for combat, while these ships that we fly for the Border Worlds don't feel quite so suitable, and the extra special weapons that get added to each (the Stormfire, Leech guns, etc) only seem to add to the impression that they're not serving their original purposes, and have been rebuilt to some degree for combat use. They're also chunkier than the Confed craft, which seem more refined in comparison.
 
Oops. I thought all the Confed fighters built by Douglas Aerospace. I guess I didn't look closely enough at the ships section.
 
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