Blair & Paladin's Pilgrim Crosses

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X_FIREFALCON

Spaceman
In looking over a few older posts, I saw LeHah and TC contributed some interesting background knowledge about the deleted scenes and subplots from the Wing Commander movie (can be found here: http://www.crius.net/zone/showthread.php?t=6347)...

For those that don't feel like reading through it, my basic understanding is that through an encounter with a traitor, Blair loses his cross, so it has even greater impact later on when Paladin hands him his cross to give him the "faith."

Do we know what ever happened to Blair and Paladin's crosses (I realize this was a "newer" thing added into the movie that didn't exist in any of the games before it, but I'm wondering if information pertaining to these relics ever explained)? Did Blair ever get his mother's back? Did he ever give Taggart's back?

Also, am I right in understanding that the cross doubles as a dagger? Seems in some of the edited out parts, it might have actually been used as a last-ditch melee weapon? Or was it just a cheap piece of metal you could jab into things (like a metal spoon)? :D
 
I actually started a thread not too long ago specifically detailing the differences between the shooting script (everything actually filmed) and the actual theatrical cut of the movie. Alas the thread didn't get as much discussion as I had hoped (read it here )

Basically, Blair Pretends to fight gerald with a knife. When he finally gets the better of gerald, instead of plunging it into gerald, he throws it, hitting the actual traitor in the chest. But both gerald and Blair need to get out of the kilrathi bridge in a hurry because the traitor also managed to detonate a grenade before he died, so presumably Blair's cross is burned up / destroyed in the blast. (the traitor in which the knife was embeded is holding the grenade when it goes off). I have read the movie novel but not Pilgrim stars, so I can't say whether it says he gives the cross back eventually. Understandably the cross is not mentioned in star*soldier.
 
Space Point

Do we know what ever happened to Blair and Paladin's crosses (I realize this was a "newer" thing added into the movie that didn't exist in any of the games before it, but I'm wondering if information pertaining to these relics ever explained)? Did Blair ever get his mother's back? Did he ever give Taggart's back?
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Blair does not get his mother's cross back - but he does return Paladin's after the movie.
 
X_FIREFALCON said:
Also, am I right in understanding that the cross doubles as a dagger? Seems in some of the edited out parts, it might have actually been used as a last-ditch melee weapon? Or was it just a cheap piece of metal you could jab into things (like a metal spoon)? :D
Click to expand...

To tie in with the movie a few years back, you could buy an authentic Pilgrim Cross with a large dagger in the bottom. The blade did not pop out as in the movie, but you could insert it and mount it on a a board.

moviebirthday10.jpg
 
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ChrisReid said:
To tie in with the movie a few years back, you could buy an authentic Pilgrim Cross with a large dagger in the bottom. The blade did not pop out as in the movie, but you could insert it and mount it on a a board.
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I've actually been trying to figure out a way to do that. I'm trying to make a spring shot so that it will fire the blade out... sadly, I'm still working on the locking mechanism, or otherwise the stupid thing will launch the blade as a projectile.
 
Do you have an actual cross? Are you using a special blade? The actual blade sticks out further than the length of the unit, so you'd need something else to make it work.
 
Note that there wasn't a switchblade version of the prop, even... they just swapped the no-knife version with a knife when it was supposed to extent.
 
ChrisReid said:
Do you have an actual cross? Are you using a special blade? The actual blade sticks out further than the length of the unit, so you'd need something else to make it work.
Click to expand...

I have the blade from my original cross. I'm keeping that one, and filing down the other one, I've also removed the blades that come out on the side until I can figure out how to make them shoot out (suggestions?), and yes I'm using my Pilgrims cross, though I haven't installed the mechanism yet.

Bandit LOAF said:
Note that there wasn't a switchblade version of the prop, even... they just swapped the no-knife version with a knife when it was supposed to extent.
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Yeah I know, I found it sort of comical that the only real movie prop that was ever commercially sold was a movie flaw as the cross was clearly too big to fit in the cross.
 
frostytheplebe said:
Yeah I know, I found it sort of comical that the only real movie prop that was ever commercially sold was a movie flaw as the cross was clearly too big to fit in the cross.
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What's the flaw? The Pilgrim Cross that was sold represents what a fully extended cross in the movie was supposed to be. Actually making the blade fit into the unit and pop out would be a bunch more complicated/expensive and also illegal to have in a bunch of places. Don't see what's "comical."
 
Thanks to ChrisReid for the picture inclusion above....got me thinking, though. It looks like there's some scribbling across the top arc of the Cross. Is that for design purposes (i.e. just a visual flourish), or is it some kind of universal Pilgrim expression or some such thing (like a pledge, a list of virtues, etc.)??
 
Apologies for not replying sooner.

We don't know - in all likelyhood, yes. The cross was supposed to be highly representational... but the brief blurb in the Handbook doesn't explain what the specific symbols mean.

The DVD of the movie has similar symbols that flip around on the menu screen for no reason... the art department may have created some element of Pilgrim lore that was just never made clear to us at home.
 
frostytheplebe said:
Yeah I know, I found it sort of comical that the only real movie prop that was ever commercially sold was a movie flaw as the cross was clearly too big to fit in the cross.
Click to expand...

To make the "switchblade" action work in the film, they ran a tube up the actor's jacket to his sleeve. When they shot compressed air into it, the blade would shoot out of the hollow prop the actor was holding. They do this a great deal in movies and television - think of everytime someone used one of those needle knives on the X-Files.
 
MannPower said:
It always looked like a letter-opener, to me. You stay out there too long, you lose your ability to open mail.
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I always thought the cross/compass part was neat looking but the blade always seems a little narrow.
 
Yeah - which makes me wonder about the knife fight removed from the end of the film... how did they make a one on one battle with that little knife interesting?
 
Bandit LOAF said:
Yeah - which makes me wonder about the knife fight removed from the end of the film... how did they make a one on one battle with that little knife interesting?
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I don't imagine they were using them like swords. The script talks about dodging and ducking and kicking... And Gerald has a big Marines knife. They don't really fight wilson at all. Blair it just toying with gerald to he has an opportunity to throw the knife into wilson. He isn't really trying to hurt Gerald with it at all, though obviously Gerald thinks the fight is real enough. But, Yeah...
 
That's just it - a scene of Freddie Prinze with a small butter knife toying with Gerald and a bowie knife just doesn't seem to last very long in my head.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
That's just it - a scene of Freddie Prinze with a small butter knife toying with Gerald and a bowie knife just doesn't seem to last very long in my head.
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True, and they really don't fight that long in the script either. Here's the excerpt:
shooting script said:
WILSON
Where did you get that cross?

BLAIR stands, cross held in front of him.

BLAIR
It was my mother's. She was killed at
Peron.

Wilson studies Blair.

BLAIR (Cont'd)
I was five.

WILSON
My wife burned in those flames. When
you remember Peron, what do you feel?

BLAIR looks at Gerald with a dead and deadly expression.

BLAIR
...Hate.

WILSON
(considers)
...If you're a Pilgrim, prove it.
Kill him.

BLAIR nods, reaches for his weapon.

WILSON (Cont'd)
With the blade.

Slowly, Blair's hand moves away from the weapon. HE
pulls the cross from his neck. A whooshing sound as the
blade periscopes out. GERALD pulls an ugly looking
fighting knife from his vest, assumes a fighting stance.

GERALD
I was right all along. Come on,
Pilgrim, pass your test.

BLAIR and GERALD circle one another, blades moving in
slow, almost hypnotic patters. BLAIR feints left and
Gerald tries to cut him. Blades spark. GERALD kicks
Blair. Blow knocks Blair off balance, gives Gerald the
advantage. HE swings, cuts Blair in the arm. Two men
circle. Then GERALD makes a mistake: with a head fake,
he stabs at Blair. BLAIR catches Gerald's arm, steps in,
and in a classic jujitsu move, sweeps his legs out.
GERALD lands hard on his back, BLAIR standing over him,
blade held high.

WILSON
Finish him!

BLAIR brings the cross down. But instead of digging it
into Gerald, he throws it.

233B CONTINUED: (4)

Cross flies through the air, catches Wilson in the chest.
He staggers back, slumps against a column. We can hear the
hiss of his suit losing air. Inevitable death.

GERALD looks at BLAIR, approaches the dying traitor.
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I think part the real tension is supposed to be blair's prior assault on the kilrathi on the bridge and then finally the grenade that Wilson sets off. I don't think the actual knife fight was ever supposed to be that huge.
 
In terms of the (intended) narrative it is huge, though - it's the exact point in the film that a whole bunch of disparate elements come together (wondering how Blair really feels about his heritage, Gerald's accusing Blair, revealing that the cross had a knife in it, etc.)
 
Bandit LOAF said:
In terms of the (intended) narrative it is huge, though - it's the exact point in the film that a whole bunch of disparate elements come together (wondering how Blair really feels about his heritage, Gerald's accusing Blair, revealing that the cross had a knife in it, etc.)
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We see the knife when Paladin opens it on the diligent though... The angles of the shots could also alter how the knife is perceived in action too I suppose. But my impression (unrelated to how it would look in a fight) is that the knife was never really a combat weapon and more ceremonial in nature.

I agree it's the Climax of the movie but I don't think it can be taken out of the context of the whole Concom raid.

It's very important to the story, but in terms of legnth and how it would play out on the screen it's hard to say how much dramatic effect it would have had or not had. My point was more that they seemingly spend as much time hitting eachother as they do swiping eachother with their knives. I don't think they ever intended it to be a big long drawn out fight that in and of itself would be a set piece the way Blair's initial entrance onto the bridge seems to be.

Gerald is also considerably older than Blair. It's not entirely surprising that he would get the better of Gerald even if Gerald's knife was bigger.
 
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