Blair & Maniac's First Meeting

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RyanFialcowitz

Swabbie
Banned
I was just playing the Sega CD version of Wing Commander and when you first talk to Maniac he acts as those you've just met: "Nice to meet you." I've heard that it's established later that they were in The Academy together, the television series perhaps? So, how can these two facts be reconciled?

-Ryan P. Fialcowitz
 
Maniac is a proven sarcastic bastage. Odds are he was being a smartass greeting Blair like everyone else from the Claw.
 
That whole area of the timeline does confuse me. Where Academy falls into place is undeniable, but in the WC movie Blair definately doesn't recognise Angel, ditto on Hunter; but the movie starts with Bossman being dead, and Knight dies over the course of the movie.
So what is the order of events?
 
Guys, this is one topic that has been hacked back and forth over the forum at least 50 times! Do yourselves a favor and don't rehash them! You'll just get answers that'll leave you with even more questions! Just sit back and enjoy the damn games and movie, don't think about it too much, trust me, spare yourselves a headache.

... if you simply must get answers, search for forums, I promise you'll find what your looking for. PLEASE do not start a debate that will go around in circles for hours!
 
I appreciate its a touchy subject (although hopefully less so now). I'm not looking for a debate; I've just been re-reading/watching/playing around that particular era and would be nice to tie it all together. A link to one of those previous debates would do just fine, I'll go hunting for one later.
 
I was just playing the Sega CD version of Wing Commander and when you first talk to Maniac he acts as those you've just met: "Nice to meet you." I've heard that it's established later that they were in The Academy together, the television series perhaps? So, how can these two facts be reconciled?
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It isn't really something added later - the idea that Maniac and Blair went to the Academy together has been canonical since the Wing Commander I & II Ultimate Strategy Guide... and there are some strong indications that it was the intention all along. All of the introductions are there to greet players who didn't bother to read the manual - there's not really much more to it than that...

... if you simply must get answers, search for forums, I promise you'll find what your looking for. PLEASE do not start a debate that will go around in circles for hours!
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Please don't do this. We're here to answer questions... and to engage in debates. I really hate it when a forum becomes a bunch of people telling anyone with a question they should have searched harder before asking.

That whole area of the timeline does confuse me. Where Academy falls into place is undeniable, but in the WC movie Blair definately doesn't recognise Angel, ditto on Hunter; but the movie starts with Bossman being dead, and Knight dies over the course of the movie.
So what is the order of events?
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The first episode of Academy (Red & Blue) is first, ending with Maniac and Blair's assignment to the Tiger's Claw. Then the movie, which is their arrival and first mission... then it's a mix of Academy episodes and portions of the original Wing Commander game through the rest of 2654-55.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
The first episode of Academy (Red & Blue) is first, ending with Maniac and Blair's assignment to the Tiger's Claw. Then the movie, which is their arrival and first mission... then it's a mix of Academy episodes and portions of the original Wing Commander game through the rest of 2654-55.
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Thanks. So Academy focuses on the cadets, with whom Blair shares training missions but the rest of the time he gains experience flying with the more seasoned pilots? That makes sense enough.

When in the timeline does Bossman die?
Also Tolwyns rank, in the movie its Admiral, in Academy Red and Blue he's a Commodore, as he is in the episodes following that IIRC. Is the assumption that he was promoted before following through in his role of supervision and then subsequently demoted, or was working as acting admiral due to some circumstances.
 
Pedro said:
That whole area of the timeline does confuse me. Where Academy falls into place is undeniable, but in the WC movie Blair definately doesn't recognise Angel, ditto on Hunter; but the movie starts with Bossman being dead, and Knight dies over the course of the movie.
So what is the order of events?
Click to expand...

If I remember right Bossman was presumed dead but he was actually captured and then rescued shortly after the movie and Knight ejected before his ship was destroyed.
 
Thanks. So Academy focuses on the cadets, with whom Blair shares training missions but the rest of the time he gains experience flying with the more seasoned pilots? That makes sense enough.
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Yes - as the press material explains, the show isn't about Blair's college years... it's literally the 'Wing Commander Academy', a special post-comissioning training program for promising officers.

When in the timeline does Bossman die?
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In 2655, during Secret Missions 2.

Also Tolwyns rank, in the movie its Admiral, in Academy Red and Blue he's a Commodore, as he is in the episodes following that IIRC. Is the assumption that he was promoted before following through in his role of supervision and then subsequently demoted, or was working as acting admiral due to some circumstances.
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Commodore is a type of Admiral. The modern United States Navy has even replaced it with "Rear Admiral (Lower Half)".
 
Never seen the movie so bear with me.

1.) So, Blair meets various characters in both the movie and the first game- each of which assumes the meetings are for the first time. If this is the case then each of these characters meets him for the first time twice, how do you reconcile this?

2.) If the television series happens concurrently with the first game then Blair is a second lieutenant, yet Tolwyn refers to him as a cadet. Even if he were in a special training program wouldn't it be more appropriate to address him by his rank?

3.) Is it just me or does the Tiger's Claw look different in the game and television series? I hear it is also different in the movie. . .

4.) In the television series there were a couple of fighters that I don't recall seeing until Heart Of The Tiger. Is this an indication of just how old the Victory was during that game?

Any input on these questions would be appreciated. . .

-Ryan P. Fialcowitz
 
1.) So, Blair meets various characters in both the movie and the first game- each of which assumes the meetings are for the first time. If this is the case then each of these characters meets him for the first time twice, how do you reconcile this?
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The movie is the story of Blair and Maniac's first missions on the Tiger's Claw, it takes place roughly a month before the start of Wing Commander I. Any introductions made in the film (Angel, Paladin) are (in all likelyhood) the first time Blair encountered those characters.

2.) If the television series happens concurrently with the first game then Blair is a second lieutenant, yet Tolwyn refers to him as a cadet. Even if he were in a special training program wouldn't it be more appropriate to address him by his rank?
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I think you've answered your own question - since Tolwyn *does* call him a cadet that must be right. Note that this isn't some attempt to explain some continuity error... it's part of the background of the series. You even see "2nd Lt. {Whoever}" labels on the cadets' cabins in "The Most Delicate Instrument" (third episode aired).

3.) Is it just me or does the Tiger's Claw look different in the game and television series? I hear it is also different in the movie. . .
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It's also different in Super Wing Comander - and it changes things like number of engines between the blueprints, cutscene and in-flight views in WC1 alone...

4.) In the television series there were a couple of fighters that I don't recall seeing until Heart Of The Tiger. Is this an indication of just how old the Victory was during that game?
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It's more an indication that "if I haven't seen it before, it's new!" is a bad way for fans to think about fighters. There's nothing wrong with putting Arrows and Hellcats in a story set fifteen years before WC3 - because those fighters don't have some backstory saying they're new. Wake me up if an Excalibur shows up on WCA...
 
RyanFialcowitz said:
4.) In the television series there were a couple of fighters that I don't recall seeing until Heart Of The Tiger. Is this an indication of just how old the Victory was during that game?

Any input on these questions would be appreciated. . .

-Ryan P. Fialcowitz
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The ones in Heart of the Tiger are either upgraded models or different older fighters which use similar space-frame designs.
 
Not having seen the film I don't know which characters Blair/Maniac meet- but in the first game each and everyone of them greets him as though for the first time. I don't understand how this could not be a continuity error.

-Ryan P. Fialcowitz
 
There is a little bit of a continuity error. In the movie they only meet Paladin, Angel and Hunter. Maniacs intro is a little odd to in the game but its maniac. He would just mess with blair anyways if someone didn't know the two knew each other. The other ones kind of if i remember right could be taken either way to whether they have really be introduced to each other or not. I say this just because Paladin is like" How ya doin' laddie."He just seems to know ya kinda already. Then Angel is just spewing some stats but seems to not really know you. and Hunter is just a badass. Yes there is a little bit of a continuity problem but this was the first game and its the first time anyone gets to meet these characters. I don't find it to be that big of a deal. The characters don't really know each other that much at this point anyways even with the movie included.
 
Angel: Bonjour, Lieutenant. You are called Maverick, non? I am called Angel.
Paladin: Och, laddie, take a seat an’ tilt a glass with ol’ Paladin.
Hunter: You’re Maverick, right? They call me Hunter, mate.

All taken from: http://wedge009.net/wc/wc1/enyo.php

Hopefully, I'll watch the film tomorrow sometime and see for myself if the above can be reconciled. The way I see it if neither Angel nor Hunter learn Blair's callsign then we don't have a problem.

-Ryan P. Fialcowitz
 
RyanFialcowitz said:
Angel: Bonjour, Lieutenant. You are called Maverick, non? I am called Angel.
Paladin: Och, laddie, take a seat an’ tilt a glass with ol’ Paladin.
Hunter: You’re Maverick, right? They call me Hunter, mate.

All taken from: http://wedge009.net/wc/wc1/enyo.php

Hopefully, I'll watch the film tomorrow sometime and see for myself if the above can be reconciled. The way I see it if neither Angel nor Hunter learn Blair's callsign then we don't have a problem.

-Ryan P. Fialcowitz
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Blair's Callsign is never mentioned in the movie
 
1.) Blair is refered to by Tolwyn as a 1st Lieutenant in the film, in the game he's a 2nd Lieutenant. Moments later Blair introduces himself as a Lieutenant JG. . .

2.) Maniac is said to be a new callsign for Marshall despite its repeated use in the television series.

Now, you can rationalize the second but what happened with the first? Does he get promoted over the course of the television series and then demoted before the game starts?

-Ryan P. Fialcowitz
 
RyanFialcowitz said:
1.) Blair is refered to by Tolwyn as a 1st Lieutenant in the film, in the game he's a 2nd Lieutenant. Moments later Blair introduces himself as a Lieutenant JG. . .

2.) Maniac is said to be a new callsign for Marshall despite its repeated use in the television series.

Now, you can rationalize the second but what happened with the first? Does he get promoted over the course of the television series and then demoted before the game starts?

-Ryan P. Fialcowitz
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1: Either a typo in the script or a mistake on the actor's part that wasn't corrected.

2: The movie take's place before the TV series and first game with the TV Series and first game taking place during each other.
 
It really takes a little bit of acrobatics to bend it all into place; but I don't think the three of them were designed to seamlessly mesh, after all. It's only later that they were shoehorned in together... or so it seems to me.
 
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