Admiral Tolwyn's Court Martial

But the events on prophecy makes you say "oh, now i see your point, admiral".

About the trailers, the only one i saw before playing the game, was one that started something like this:
"For half a century, humanity fought a deadly war against the kilrathi. With victory came peace, and a simple life, for the confederation's greatest hero". And then it shows part of the scene of Blair finding Maniac in the bar at the begginning. That trailer in particular, is shown like a movie trailer, and it doesn't show anything about Tolwyn being the "bad guy".
It made me want to play that game, badly.

Yeah, why can't trailers be more like this. TV series are notorous for telling or practically showing you major details that will occur in the next episode. Kind of annoying.
 
But the events on prophecy makes you say "oh, now i see your point, admiral".

Which wouldn't have been all that helpful if his plan had gone through, which included inciting a war by seeding a lot of humanity's core worlds (including Earth, IIRC) with the bioweapon used on Telemon, which had a fatality rate of 90% (again, IIRC). Add to that the death and destruction that wars tend to bring, and you wind up with a much weakened Confederation, not that long before that "big bad" came out in force. "Small but super-elite force successfully kicks the asses of alien swarms" doesn't work out quite as well in RL (or the in-universe RL, anyway) as it does in games.

Given the state of humanity as of Arena, 20 years after the initial attacks without the weakening that would have resulted from Tolwyn's plan succeeding, if he had pulled it off it's entirely possible that humanity would've been wiped out, for all practical purposes.
 
...and while those 10% were all out in ships fighting the Nephilim, who, exactly, would be making the replacement ships, spare parts, food, fuel, etc. that would be needed for the "strong" to fight the war?
 
Which wouldn't have been all that helpful if his plan had gone through, which included inciting a war by seeding a lot of humanity's core worlds (including Earth, IIRC) with the bioweapon used on Telemon, which had a fatality rate of 90% (again, IIRC). Add to that the death and destruction that wars tend to bring, and you wind up with a much weakened Confederation, not that long before that "big bad" came out in force. "Small but super-elite force successfully kicks the asses of alien swarms" doesn't work out quite as well in RL (or the in-universe RL, anyway) as it does in games.

Given the state of humanity as of Arena, 20 years after the initial attacks without the weakening that would have resulted from Tolwyn's plan succeeding, if he had pulled it off it's entirely possible that humanity would've been wiped out, for all practical purposes.

Of course, Tolwyn's plan would have been the end of the Confederation, but that doesn't change the fact that he had a point. Maybe the Midway was Blair hearing some of the things that Tolwyn said? Like "We must be prepared".
 
Of course, Tolwyn's plan would have been the end of the Confederation, but that doesn't change the fact that he had a point. Maybe the Midway was Blair hearing some of the things that Tolwyn said? Like "We must be prepared".

"This tub gets hulled then what? Confed put all its eggs into one little basket."

I think that ship was confeds way of saying we're too cheap to build a huge fleet, so we're going to stick with ancient ships and build 1 massive ship to carry out fleet opps.
 
Well, that is why the ship got approved no doubt....but still it was Blair's idea in the first place for the ship. Probably to his thinking, one ship with a lot of fighters is really all you need for most battles anyway, lots of fighters/bombers to nail the enemy fleet with plenty left over for any assaults against the thing.

Say when was it known about the threat of the Nephilim? I know it was before prophecy, but when? 2680? 2678?

Chances are, in any case, that a big ship like that could survive without the escorts if needed. (and it was needed)

Also, nothing the Kilrathi have would be a problem against the midway unlike if something like a Concordia or even a Vesuvius (though its fighter protection should be enough to deal with anything) were to work along. Plus, the Vesuvius class is doubtless a beast to maintain and would probably be held in reserve or innersystem guard most of time (I think the Aces got a few of the politican things completely spot on). Those ships are probably not cheap to build either (though we really can't say one way or another which is cheaper to build). Still wouldn't you want a pretty self-sufficient ship like the midway that had not as much strike power but still more than enough to deal with most threats and be able to have (at least maintain) three of these for the cost of the Vesuvii.
 
Well, that is why the ship got approved no doubt....but still it was Blair's idea in the first place for the ship. Probably to his thinking, one ship with a lot of fighters is really all you need for most battles anyway, lots of fighters/bombers to nail the enemy fleet with plenty left over for any assaults against the thing.

Say when was it known about the threat of the Nephilim? I know it was before prophecy, but when? 2680? 2678?

Chances are, in any case, that a big ship like that could survive without the escorts if needed. (and it was needed)

Also, nothing the Kilrathi have would be a problem against the midway unlike if something like a Concordia or even a Vesuvius (though its fighter protection should be enough to deal with anything) were to work along. Plus, the Vesuvius class is doubtless a beast to maintain and would probably be held in reserve or innersystem guard most of time (I think the Aces got a few of the politican things completely spot on). Those ships are probably not cheap to build either (though we really can't say one way or another which is cheaper to build). Still wouldn't you want a pretty self-sufficient ship like the midway that had not as much strike power but still more than enough to deal with most threats and be able to have (at least maintain) three of these for the cost of the Vesuvii.

Eh... I think you're over estimating the Vesuvius class... The thing I had the most problem with was that Confed didnt learn its lesson from the Kilrathi war with those ships. They had seen the Kilrathi fly into a flight bay and destroy a carrier from the inside, but still made the ship with that design... PLUS DID NOT ARMOR THE BAYS AT ALL!!

The Concordia on the other hand even without her flight bays up and running was still a fully armed warship that could have put up a fight... oh wait, you're referring to the fleet carrier class aren't you? Stupid me...
 
"This tub gets hulled then what? Confed put all its eggs into one little basket."

I think that ship was confeds way of saying we're too cheap to build a huge fleet, so we're going to stick with ancient ships and build 1 massive ship to carry out fleet opps.

Well, at least there were at least 10 Midways planned from the beginning (and apparently built) so that is quite a projection force Confed had. IIRC, Confed never had that many powerful carriers during wartime...

And give the Vesuvius some more credit - at least it's armour was so that the Flashpak had to be launched from the inside.

Though I agree that fly through hangars never seemed like a very good idea to me...
 
Well, at least there were at least 10 Midways planned from the beginning (and apparently built) so that is quite a projection force Confed had. IIRC, Confed never had that many powerful carriers during wartime...

And give the Vesuvius some more credit - at least it's armour was so that the Flashpak had to be launched from the inside.

Though I agree that fly through hangars never seemed like a very good idea to me...

The armor definitely gets credit. But imagine had they equipped a ship like the Concordia with that. Can you say impervious? The only thing I dont like about Vesuvius is its overall design. Ten Midways... yeah that'd do it. But for such a large carrier, I would think they'd have a tighter defense, the turrets seem a little too spread out, leave key areas too vulnerable.
 
I agree on that....way too thin. The thing probably needed neutron, mass driver, laser and maybe a couple of tachs (around the bridge) in addition to imrec turrets. Turrets should be pretty cheap. (though in reality it probably would, but the devs didn't have time to put in all of the bells and whistles....though what they did get done was great in and of itself).

The armor was what I was getting at though. Anti-capship dedicated Kilrathi vessels could probably do the thing in if they didn't have to worry about all of the fighters. Meaning its defenses are not so strong as to be invincible to other capships but if a Kilrathi destroyer or cruiser (which would be rather old to begin with) managed to attack it, its postwar heavy armor would be more than enough to take the damage while the bombers took the offended craft out. It is still not as strong in defense as the Midway's state-of-art defenses being at least some 5 years old, so it would be advisiable just sending the thing into partially hostile territory with a few escorts while the Midway can.

The only problem I have with the Midway have such awesome standalone defenses is its actual defenses in game are fairly weak, but I guess the new phase-shields would be enough to handle old Kilrathi ships. So maybe the Vesuvius could operate alone in peacetime Kilrathi territory. (eg. the Eisen)
 
I agree on that....way too thin. The thing probably needed neutron, mass driver, laser and maybe a couple of tachs (around the bridge) in addition to imrec turrets. Turrets should be pretty cheap. (though in reality it probably would, but the devs didn't have time to put in all of the bells and whistles....though what they did get done was great in and of itself).

The armor was what I was getting at though. Anti-capship dedicated Kilrathi vessels could probably do the thing in if they didn't have to worry about all of the fighters. Meaning its defenses are not so strong as to be invincible to other capships but if a Kilrathi destroyer or cruiser (which would be rather old to begin with) managed to attack it, its postwar heavy armor would be more than enough to take the damage while the bombers took the offended craft out. It is still not as strong in defense as the Midway's state-of-art defenses being at least some 5 years old, so it would be advisiable just sending the thing into partially hostile territory with a few escorts while the Midway can.

The only problem I have with the Midway have such awesome standalone defenses is its actual defenses in game are fairly weak, but I guess the new phase-shields would be enough to handle old Kilrathi ships. So maybe the Vesuvius could operate alone in peacetime Kilrathi territory. (eg. the Eisen)

I have to disagree on the Midway handling Kilrathi... We don't see the bugs do this, but the Kilrathi have no problem slamming their fighters into an enemy cap ship. Think back to Spirit slamming her fighter into a starbase with all its torpedoes and missiles armed... not fun for the kilrathi that day.
 
I have to disagree on the Midway handling Kilrathi... We don't see the bugs do this, but the Kilrathi have no problem slamming their fighters into an enemy cap ship. Think back to Spirit slamming her fighter into a starbase with all its torpedoes and missiles armed... not fun for the kilrathi that day.

We see both sides use Kamikaze tactics during the war. A notable occurrence is during the Second Battle of Hellhole where Bondarevsky watches several Landreichers go Kamikaze in a matter of minutes.

The TCS Tarawa lost its bridge during the Kilrah raid to a Kilrathi Kamikaze that kills the entire bridge crew.

On the same raid we also see Janice "Starlight" Parker kamikaze into a torpedo that was about to hit the Tarawa in order to save the ship from certain destruction.
 
On the same raid we also see Janice "Starlight" Parker kamikaze into a torpedo that was about to hit the Tarawa in order to save the ship from certain destruction.

Haha, I've done that a few times... usually when my wingman is gone and my escort is surrounded by bombers. I've got multiple enemy torpedoes screaming toward my the ship I'm protecting and I'm just like, ok F*** it! Slam afterburners towards the closest torpedo and BOOM! (think of the pilot of sacrificed himself in Airforce one.) Here's to an absolutely beautiful rendezvous!:D

(Honestly I can't imagine a more heroic way to go!)
 
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