Aces Club?

[criticalmass]

Presuming to write ones own history is a supreme arrogance, as is presuming your history matters.
(...)
Yes, the idea that I can dredge up decade old fights I had with people when I was a teenager and prove that I was right is very appealing to me... but it isn't interesting or pleasant. It's just petty.

I couldn't agree more to your first statement than I could disagree to your last.

Now, after that really pompous sentence, let me tell you what I mean. I don't want to orchestrate the grand unified touchy feelie WC community.
What I want is simple: Less stupid (ah, let's say ignorant) people coming in, taking off on some tangent, basing their addled ideas on some piece of fan fiction, stepping on some toes and getting banned - and afterwards running around telling how mean, arrogant, and self-centered the WC community is.

If you know a bit of the background, you know what better not to touch or to ask, because people are tired of discussing the same stuff over and over again. But explaining that over and over again is just as tiring; and snapping at people because they don't get it won't help either. So, do you want to do this every time somebody wanting to put turrets on draymans comes in?

As said, coming to terms is not pretty, but it's not petty either. It may hurt, but it helps other people not to waste your time. People will confuse Fleet Action and Fleet Tactics all the time, will drag up Aces technology from the bin, and will dust off Privateer Remake Betas to argue about turrets on draymans. It's an effort to issue a lasting statement or a FAQ about each of those topics arising again and again, but individual answers are an even bigger effort.

In any case, the idea of giving this community peace, longevity and prosperity is a somewhat puzzling one. Really, which of these three things don't we currently have?

From a pessimistic POV, I'd argue all three of them. Yes, we do have very successful fan projects in all flavors, and there's always a new aspect to discuss - by mostly the same people. It's very much an old hands vs. greenhorns (considering myself belonging to the latter) situation: Some new guy has an idea, some experienced guy tells him how it was done back in 1967.

As longevity goes, there are few "new" people who have enough perseverance to get fan projects of their own started, and few new people who get motivated enough to really care. Whenever some "old guy" takes an extended vacation, things get lost. In short: Lots of new faces, not much new life.

For peace, I would say that there never can be such a thing in a discussion forum, and I am not deluded enough to promote it. But there's a difference between argument and open dislike. The story with Akkbar may be over, but others happen regularly - and while most of them are carried out by the staff in admirable evenmindedness, they still get around - and come back again. I have no solution for that, but I don't like being asked in other formus about the Wing Commander Nazis; just as little as I like my company's policy to archive work ethics issues (anonymously) in its intranet.

Last: Prosperity. Well, for a Star Trek quip this was out of place anyway and you get my argument - but to give an example: The things which are of a real value to the community are quite well hidden. I think about much of the background work such as shiplists, timelines, and other documents that used a lot of work - while the more "public" documents like CIC's own encyclopeadia or the other fan sites give a wrong impression of what's there. So there is prosperity, yep, but it's hard to get at it, or to distinguish between right and wrong.



To come back to Loafs initial statement, this thread has until now almost exactly achieved what I was looking for: Getting down and explaining what's all the allusions, the hints towards old stories, and the obscure acronyms that turn up now and then. People can read it if they know how to operate the search button - that much arrogance should be permissible.

 

[Edfilho]

And I remember another very polemic WC club from the internet's stone age: The SRA. Met some great people there, but there was some bad blood going on too. Glad I didn't see and/or can't remember the worst stuff.

 

[Dahan]

But then we have to remember this place is place for help. I come here to get ideas, reference, clarification and grateful for the info provided. I am not one to know everything but like to share my knowledge and opinions hoping they might be useful...

 

[ChrisReid]

As said, coming to terms is not pretty, but it's not petty either. It may hurt, but it helps other people not to waste your time. People will confuse Fleet Action and Fleet Tactics all the time, will drag up Aces technology from the bin, and will dust off Privateer Remake Betas to argue about turrets on draymans. It's an effort to issue a lasting statement or a FAQ about each of those topics arising again and again, but individual answers are an even bigger effort.

I'm not really going to bother with this stuff, but it'll be a sad day indeed when we stop talking about turrets on draymen.

From a pessimistic POV, I'd argue all three of them. Yes, we do have very successful fan projects in all flavors, and there's always a new aspect to discuss - by mostly the same people. It's very much an old hands vs. greenhorns (considering myself belonging to the latter) situation: Some new guy has an idea, some experienced guy tells him how it was done back in 1967.

Yeah, that's a very pessimistic way to look at things. That only happens in particular threads where the subjects caused problems or disruptions in the past. There is plenty of new discussion.

As longevity goes, there are few "new" people who have enough perseverance to get fan projects of their own started, and few new people who get motivated enough to really care. Whenever some "old guy" takes an extended vacation, things get lost. In short: Lots of new faces, not much new life.

That's not true. During our first several years in operation, virtually no single fan project showed any progress of consequence. We now have incredible mature projects in the form of UE, Standoff and Saga. Projects like Gemini Gold and Fleet Commander came out of nowhere in just the last year or so and made it to version 1.0 release. And now we have even newer stuff to look forward to such as WC Pioneer.

For peace, I would say that there never can be such a thing in a discussion forum, and I am not deluded enough to promote it. But there's a difference between argument and open dislike. The story with Akkbar may be over, but others happen regularly - and while most of them are carried out by the staff in admirable evenmindedness, they still get around - and come back again. I have no solution for that, but I don't like being asked in other formus about the Wing Commander Nazis; just as little as I like my company's policy to archive work ethics issues (anonymously) in its intranet.

I always think it's hilarious when people talk about "flame wars" and angry discussions in our community in 2005. People have no idea how much more hostile it was in the past. We were just talking in #Wingnut a couple weeks ago about how back in the 1990s it was much more serious: people would do crazy stuff like call up people's work places and carry on their bitter fights to much greater lengths than you'd ever seen in the last few years. More than once I got in contact with people's ISP abuse departments to try to get their accounts terminated (that was 1996's equivalent of adding someone to the ban list). It's much much more fun and peaceful here now.

Last: Prosperity. Well, for a Star Trek quip this was out of place anyway and you get my argument - but to give an example: The things which are of a real value to the community are quite well hidden. I think about much of the background work such as shiplists, timelines, and other documents that used a lot of work - while the more "public" documents like CIC's own encyclopeadia or the other fan sites give a wrong impression of what's there. So there is prosperity, yep, but it's hard to get at it, or to distinguish between right and wrong.

Prosperity is measured in the number of people coming to our community and enjoying Wing Commander. More Wing Commander fans visit the CIC regularly today than when we had a direct link from the Secret Ops site during the Secret Ops giveaway.

week 42, 1998 15743
week 42, 1999 6341
week 42, 2000 4496
week 42, 2001 6950
week 42, 2002 7532
week 42, 2003 10251
week 42, 2004 11702
week 42, 2005 17074

 

[Haesslich]

And I remember another very polemic WC club from the internet's stone age: The SRA. Met some great people there, but there was some bad blood going on too. Glad I didn't see and/or can't remember the worst stuff.

You should be glad you don't remember anything. But blowing up the Destiny was fun. Did it twice, even.

 

[Edfilho]

BTW, you are one of the cool people. I do miss Christa, though, she was incredibly sweet. And I don't even know her for real. Just a nick in an IRC channel.