Dundradal
Frog Blast the Vent Core!
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My point is that it did not look like *any* design of the Tiger's Claw seen in any of the games.
In any case, there is no evidence (prior to the WC-Movie) that suggested the WC-1 Rapier was anything other than the Rapier, not Rapier II, or Rapier III etc. It was just called the Rapier.
Yeah, but in WC-1 it was just called the Rapier. Not Rapier I, or Rapier II. Which in my opinion is enough to say that there was no "other" Rapier in WC-1 at that timeframe.
But how would she *know* the skipper was incapacitated? And still CDR Gerald was still alive -- he would be the most senior person.
She wasn't commanding just a squadron. There were Rapiers, Broadswords and such. Generally a squadron consist of only one type of aircraft/spacecraft in this case.
No, I didn't read it. I don't even have a link to it. But Star-Soldier was written WAY after the movie.
Additionally some of the drawings prior to the movie being made depicted a much different fighter than the one finally shown as the Rapier. While it didn't exactly look like either fighter, it looked way more like the Rapier from the game than the Rapier from the movie.
That's true. But the Rapier in WC-1 wasn't called the Rapier II, which it would have been had the Rapier from WCM would have existed. And it's odd considering Blair had flown them that it would have never been mentioned again. And it's not like Blair went up every time to a more advanced fighter as the game progressed. Sometimes he went back to flying Scimitars in some missions, etc. Why didn't he go back to flying these CF-117's
A movie if anything should be *more* realistic than the game. Carriers are packed for space. Even if not seen on the deck, there are recessed areas on the side of the flight-deck (at least the Victory and Lexington, which were the most realistic designs seen) where you would see loads of fighters being fixed and repared. And while it's possible they'd all be the same class, the likely hood would be that you'd see multiple planes being fixed -- if realism was the goal.
Jesus Christ, I assumed it was written after. The WC-3 novel was written after WC-3 the game. Still, the fact that it used Claw-Marks and other sources as reference points would explain why it had more detail than the movie.
- The claw marks listing strikes me as kind of odd, and potentially a continuity error with the game. The game made them seem brand new -- it may have been added just for game players to see everything in the game -- after all the Rapier's specs are drawn up too... But one could argue Halcyon was just reviewing the fact that they were brand new (that would make sense) -- still I don't know why he'd need to review them if they were encountered in the WC-M... Would there need to be any need for reviewing it?
- The Paladin comment is interesting. But I'm wondering if this was just added after the fact (after the WC-1 game) for entertainment value. Considering Halcyon felt it necessary to mention the new design or review it would mean that even if it did exist a few months, he felt the necessary to mention it or at least review it to new pilots.
- The Fralthi may have existed before it's appearance in WC-1 the game. But it wasn't well known, or whoever saw it (opposing ships) was killed before they could broadcast specs.
- Wing Commander Academy (TV) was made AFTER many of the games were written. For this reason they may have added the Fralthi even though if it would have been slightly out of continuity
I already wrote some explanations. But perhaps you are right, it may have been the carrier conversion that was new. But why did they code name it "Fralthi". The name wasn't new... and if I recall it was called a cruiser.
BTW: I know the regular Fralthi had a fighter complement of 20... what did the Carrier version carry?
Halcyon himself mentions commanding the ship?
Still, it does seem odd though, that the Wing Commander would be also commanding the ship. The Carrier Air Wing is generally a seperate chain of command from the rest of the Carriers complement. If whoever was the Captain died, the XO would be in charge even if the Wing Commander outranked him. Still Jason Bondarevsky the WC on the Tarawa took the helm after the skipper died.
When was it mentioned that Tolwyn left? (prior to WCA-TV)
Deveraux did a database search with her fighter... which is beyond me as I don't know how so much data about people in the intelligence community would be carried in every fighter's computer (and they couldn't communicate with the Claw...)... C6AZ9 clearance... and Commodore James Taggart came up. It specifically called him a Commodore.
Hey, it's more canonicalish (yes that's my own word) than the WCM was... And it was based on a battle that was already written about.
In either case, such a close call in which Earth almost got ambushed is a big part of the storyline which novels written in later parts of the timeline (2668 for example) would have brought up. Additionally, the WC-Bible which while not canon unless repeated elsewhere, never mentioned anything like such an ambush being part of the plot. That's a really close call.
One thing is expanding upon a story. But this is inserting a part of the story that was never in mentioned in WC before... not the WC-Bible, (which while not Canon, covers the timeline from 2634 to at least 2669), every novel other than the WC-Movie Novel/ Pilgrim-Stars novel, and the WC-Movie...
Star*Soldier was written AFTER the WC-Movie...
I don't know about the Epsilon Prime battle, but the WC-Movie wasn't a small addition -- it was a HUGE insertion of material -- it would have been a major part of a war! Your enemy nearly reaches your homeworld!!! And is narrowly stopped.
I'm not saying that. I'm saying something that big of an event would be unlikely to never be mentioned. WC:FA never mentioned any kind of sneak attack like this (granted the movie was written later -- but still, the WCM sneak-attack was something HUGE -- they damn near got Earth! That was not a tiny adjustment to the plot to add some detail and stuff -- it was a major change! Not a small addition)
Second of all... why would Earth's destruction in the story make as big a deal as they made it out to be? I thought only the Kilrathi's culture and stuff was so centered around their homeworld and we were more decentralized... (I'm seriously curious about this one -- Blair, the main character was from Nephele, Marshall was from Leto, etc...)
Well yeah, to the best of my memory. But it was mentioned in Claw-Marks (Which timeline or not, is a source and was mentioned), and the WC-Bible (Which if mentioned in more than one source is canon)
You're kidding me with Bossman right? Taiwan is called the Republic of China... may not be the People's Republic of China, but he's of Chinese descent...
Regarding Halcyon -- I assumed Halcyon was from Earth. Seemed kind of a gruff American WWII officer type.
I did not know Taggart was from Ares, and since he had a Scottish accent I would have assume he was from Scottland.
I guess Blair was from Nephele, but I thought somewhere in the WC story it said he was also from Earth (not sure if that's true though)
He wasn't a mistake! Them making his character into a French guy was a mistake, although Jean-Luc does sound cooler than Julian...
Okay, if they did, they did.
My point is that it did not look like *any* design of the Tiger's Claw seen in any of the games.
Not in Wing commander. While that is the case in some games, a number of the other games also include specific instances squadrons are made up of a general type of fighter but also including a few specialty ships like - as you mentioned - Broadswords.But how would she *know* the skipper was incapacitated? And still CDR Gerald was still alive -- he would be the most senior person.
She wasn't commanding just a squadron. There were Rapiers, Broadswords and such. Generally a squadron consist of only one type of aircraft/spacecraft in this case.
Why does that matter. You're making yourself look more idiotic with every post. Go read it. It's a free download from EA, or at the CIC. There's also a minimum number of Hard Copies that EA had printed for promotional purposes.No, I didn't read it. I don't even have a link to it. But Star-Soldier was written WAY after the movie.
Stop repeating yourself. I doubt any pilots in-game call the WC2 rapier the Rapier II either. In Fact none of the WC1 material specifies anything regarding the ships designation. It's made clear in later material that it's the Rapier II however. LOAF would know better than I though if things like SWC specifically identify it. The early concept art was based on game designs yes, but the movies scrip went through at least 3 or 4 rewrites after that and there was a conscious effort to change the design.In any case, there is no evidence (prior to the WC-Movie) that suggested the WC-1 Rapier was anything other than the Rapier, not Rapier II, or Rapier III etc. It was just called the Rapier.
Yeah, but in WC-1 it was just called the Rapier. Not Rapier I, or Rapier II. Which in my opinion is enough to say that there was no "other" Rapier in WC-1 at that timeframe.
Additionally some of the drawings prior to the movie being made depicted a much different fighter than the one finally shown as the Rapier. While it didn't exactly look like either fighter, it looked way more like the Rapier from the game than the Rapier from the movie.
No it isn't. The was nothing written about the battle other than a name.Hey, it's more canonicalish (yes that's my own word) than the WCM was... And it was based on a battle that was already written about.
this is stupid reasoning. And that's putting it politely. Stupid ! Stupid! Stupid! You would think the borderworlders would be mentioned before WC4 too but you don't seem to have a problem with that. Adding a Kilrathi Incursion doesn't change anything. Apparently Trillions died in the war. The must have died somewhere. I would think that all those battles would be considered significant events by your standards, But We haven't heard much anything about them either.I'm not saying that. I'm saying something that big of an event would be unlikely to never be mentioned. WC:FA never mentioned any kind of sneak attack like this (granted the movie was written later -- but still, the WCM sneak-attack was something HUGE -- they damn near got Earth! That was not a tiny adjustment to the plot to add some detail and stuff -- it was a major change! Not a small addition)
THe CF-117 Rapier is really old by the time of the movie (a nearly 100 year old design IIRC) THey are retired about the same time. The WC1 Rapiers are new.That's true. But the Rapier in WC-1 wasn't called the Rapier II, which it would have been had the Rapier from WCM would have existed. And it's odd considering Blair had flown them that it would have never been mentioned again. And it's not like Blair went up every time to a more advanced fighter as the game progressed. Sometimes he went back to flying Scimitars in some missions, etc. Why didn't he go back to flying these CF-117's
There *are* many types of fighters on the claw though. Not Just Rapiers and Broadswords (We don't see Broadswords on the flight deck either by the way). Partly it boils down to budjet. It Just wasn't feasable to create actual cockpits for all the fighters: Hornets, Rapiers, Scimitars, Broadswords, and Raptors. I believe there might have been a few others in Academy too. As it was, the Rapiers on the flight deck were designe that way because electric lightning cockpits were cheaper than other options so the fighters were designed around them.A movie if anything should be *more* realistic than the game. Carriers are packed for space. Even if not seen on the deck, there are recessed areas on the side of the flight-deck (at least the Victory and Lexington, which were the most realistic designs seen) where you would see loads of fighters being fixed and repared. And while it's possible they'd all be the same class, the likely hood would be that you'd see multiple planes being fixed -- if realism was the goal.
No, that's just the nature of the written page as opposed to film.Jesus Christ, I assumed it was written after. The WC-3 novel was written after WC-3 the game. Still, the fact that it used Claw-Marks and other sources as reference points would explain why it had more detail than the movie.
Rosie *was* under Angel's command though. And asking emotionally for the flight crew to clear the deck so your squadron doesn't run out of fuel isn't the same as being in command of the whole ship.Still, it does seem odd though, that the Wing Commander would be also commanding the ship. The Carrier Air Wing is generally a seperate chain of command from the rest of the Carriers complement. If whoever was the Captain died, the XO would be in charge even if the Wing Commander outranked him. Still Jason Bondarevsky the WC on the Tarawa took the helm after the skipper died.
Stupid, Stupid, Stupid!In either case, such a close call in which Earth almost got ambushed is a big part of the storyline which novels written in later parts of the timeline (2668 for example) would have brought up. Additionally, the WC-Bible which while not canon unless repeated elsewhere, never mentioned anything like such an ambush being part of the plot. That's a really close call.
And blair didn't have a name before WC3, so what.Star*Soldier was written AFTER the WC-Movie...
I don't know about the Epsilon Prime battle, but the WC-Movie wasn't a small addition -- it was a HUGE insertion of material -- it would have been a major part of a war! Your enemy nearly reaches your homeworld!!! And is narrowly stopped.
Second of all... why would Earth's destruction in the story make as big a deal as they made it out to be? I thought only the Kilrathi's culture and stuff was so centered around their homeworld and we were more decentralized... (I'm seriously curious about this one -- Blair, the main character was from Nephele, Marshall was from Leto, etc...) So that's it. You are being an idiot because you don't seriously want to know anything?...
Being mentioned doesn't matter though, and game writers aren't going to magically know 10 years ahead of time what the movies plot will be. It's not some huge plot scematic that was drawn up years in advance that must be adhered to no matter what. It just doesn't work that way.Well, no other source in the entire WC-Bible prior to the Movie, to the best of my knowledge, did not cover any invasion like that -- all the way to Earth's door step other than Fleet-Action. I wasn't attempting to make it up in order to disagree with the movie, or get under your skin or anything.
Taiwanesse people might disagree with you. It's china that insists they are chineese wheras the Taiwanesse have been asserting independance for a long time at the threat of Chinese agression.You're kidding me with Bossman right? Taiwan is called the Republic of China... may not be the People's Republic of China, but he's of Chinese descent...
Paladin's ancestors apparently were scotish but he was raised off world.I did not know Taggart was from Ares, and since he had a Scottish accent I would have assume he was from Scottland.
I guess Blair was from Nephele, but I thought somewhere in the WC story it said he was also from Earth (not sure if that's true though)
I doubt any pilots in-game call the WC2 rapier the Rapier II either. In Fact none of the WC1 material specifies anything regarding the ships designation. It's made clear in later material that it's the Rapier II however. LOAF would know better than I though if things like SWC specifically identify it.
THe CF-117 Rapier is really old by the time of the movie (a nearly 100 year old design IIRC) THey are retired about the same time. The WC1 Rapiers are new.
Apparently Trillions died in the war. The must have died somewhere. I would think that all those battles would be considered significant events by your standards, But We haven't heard much anything about them either.
Taiwanesse people might disagree with you. It's china that insists they are chineese wheras the Taiwanesse have been asserting independance for a long time at the threat of Chinese agression.
Paladin's ancestors apparently were scotish but he was raised off world.
Taiwan is even more complicated than that, because it's populated by two separate groups (not necessarily separate ethnically, but culturally - i.e., they consider themselves different) - the native Taiwanese, and the Chinese. The Taiwanese themselves have never really had any political power, and when the current president of Taiwan started talking about an independence referendum, the Chinese political parties actually started talking to the Communist Chinese government, to ensure that there would be enough pressure on Taiwan to prevent such a referendum.It's actually a little of both things. Since the start of the Cold War, Taiwan has been home to the 'Republic of China', the ostensibly-exiled government which ran pre-communist China. This certainly would no longer be the case in a distant future with a single-government galaxy-spanning Confederation.
THe CF-117 Rapier is really old by the time of the movie (a nearly 100 year old design IIRC) THey are retired about the same time.
(that's not to say that is the case in WC, though - after all, on those rare occasions where the novels refer back to the events of the 21st-26th centuries, they imply all sorts of large-scale conflicts that we know nothing about)
Do we need to explain this *again*?If there was a new rapier coming out. How come there was never mention to the old rapier that was in service at the same time?
Tolwyn understands the situation better than the others. Arnold Blair wasn't a traitor. But in most peoples minds being married to a Pilgrim, much less trying to save her from behind the blockade was questionable. Gerald never says anything good about blairs father. His reaction is exactly what the general unknowing populations was. He didn't trust pilgrims nor pilgrim sympathizers.Second, if Blair's dad was a traitor, why would the officers in WC (Either Gerald or Tolwyn) say that they fought alongside Arnold Blair and he was a good-man (Sounds odd)...
Gerald is apparently the Wing Commander thoughThird, if the WC takes over after the Captain dies... what's the point of having an XO?
Fourth -- Regarding Earth's importance.... it was said in WCM that the fate of the war could depend on the two extra hrs it would take for their fleet to reach Earth. Meaning it would be more than just "Confed would keep going on".
If there was a new rapier coming out. How come there was never mention to the old rapier that was in service at the same time?
Second, if Blair's dad was a traitor, why would the officers in WC (Either Gerald or Tolwyn) say that they fought alongside Arnold Blair and he was a good-man (Sounds odd)...
Third, if the WC takes over after the Captain dies... what's the point of having an XO?
Fourth -- Regarding Earth's importance.... it was said in WCM that the fate of the war could depend on the two extra hrs it would take for their fleet to reach Earth. Meaning it would be more than just "Confed would keep going on".