Wing Commander Starmada

ChrisReid

Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
AKAImBatman said:
I didn't explain any such thing. I explained why people *wouldn't* use the term. I'm not really sure how you managed to turn that around. Your average speaker would always say "It's a tiger's claw" or "It's a claw from a tiger." I have never heard someone say anything quite as clumsy as "It's a tiger claw." That's not to say there aren't exceptions (especially for non-native speakers; English is quite forgiving), but the grammar used in modern English tends to preclude such an abomination.

Well, maybe it has to do with where you live, because I hear such abominations of the language all the time. "Tiger Claw" sounds completely normal to me, as it must have to the people who wrote the Movie script.
 

Nemesis

Spaceman
AKAImBatman said:
. . .but the grammar used in modern English tends to preclude such an abomination.

No, it doesn’t offend grammar; it’s a proper form of the so-called noun adjective, where the first word further specifies the second word. Lots of examples: cat food, bee sting, dog bite, bird/birds nest, beaver dam, buffalo trail, chicken wing/leg, shark tooth, eagle eye, pigeon feet, horse sense, and more.

But such a construction is sometimes dependent on common usage in order to sound “right”, and so if one doesn’t have tigers roaming the neighborhood, perhaps “tiger claw” might not ring a bell, whereas “bear claw” will. On the other hand, which sounds better: “They are a tiger’s claws” or “They are tiger claws”?

English is fun.:)
 

CmdrPanda

Spaceman
powell99 said:
Ahh well. I 'd love to have a model Tarawa.


I haven't gotten around to that yet. However I do have a Bengal, two Exeters, and a Waterloo waiting to be painted. All are in 1:10000 scale. I'll post a link to pictures when I'm done.
 

AKAImBatman

Spaceman
Nemesis said:
On the other hand, which sounds better: “They are a tiger’s claws” or “They are tiger claws”?

Ugh. Plurals. Bear vs. bears, but fish vs. fish? Goose vs. geese, but sheep vs. sheep? What a mess. The later sounds correct, but only because of the mixup between plural and posessive.

But as you said, it's all about what sounds "right". Maybe it's just a midwest thing, but "tiger claw" just sounds wrong. (And again, it's not that it *is* wrong, but it's not aesthetically pleasing either.)

To get back to the original point, I practically have to rip my throat out to stop myself from using the posessive form. It's great that other people have no issues with it, but I (and many others) have a hard time with it. Which was my point about "Wake" vs. "Wake Island". People always use "Wake Island" for the name of the place. It is ingrained in them to say it that way, so calling the ship the "TCS Wake" causes a few issues for people.

Just for fun, I say we Chrisiten a ship the "TCS Bikini" and see how many heads we can mess with. :p
 

Eder

Mr. Standoff
AKAImBatman said:
People always use "Wake Island" for the name of the place. It is ingrained in them to say it that way, so calling the ship the "TCS Wake" causes a few issues for people.
Issues for some people or not, let me just point out once again that such reasoning constitutes no justifiable basis to add random words to something's given name. :p

People may call a real-life place "the Tarawa Atoll" all the time, but that doesn't mean a fictional ship's name, which is given to us by official WC products, is not the ship's actual official in-universe Confed-certified name, but rather part of an intricate conspiracy theory that aims to hide half of a ship's name from the readers. :p
 

AKAImBatman

Spaceman
People may call a real-life place "the Tarawa Atoll" all the time, but that doesn't mean a fictional ship's name, which is given to us by official WC products, is not the ship's actual official in-universe Confed-certified name, but rather part of an intricate conspiracy theory that aims to hide half of a ship's name from the readers. :p
The difference is that "Tarawa" is a proper name on its own. Therefore, people don't feel the need to tack "Atoll" on the end of it. "Wake", however, is a generic term and thus sounds improper without "Island" tacked on the end. Quite a few people probably used the name "Bikini" for the atoll up until the derived swimsuit name came into use. (The bikini was supposed to have an "atomic" effect on men. Get it? No, I don't either.) Now it is unlikely that you'd hear someone refer to it without "Atoll" on the end. ('Lest they die of embarassment. :D)
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
They just don't seem to fit although I could be derided for being subjective because they where both British defeats (although I wonder how the Japanese or other nationalities in the WC universe felt about being assigned to ships whose names are based upon the great defeats of their own people)

Wing Commander is replete with oddly named ships.

Among the fleet at McAuliffe was the TCS Soryu, named after one of the Japanese carriers which attacked Pearl Harbor.

One of the destroyers which fought the Intrepid was the TCS Dornier, named after a German aircraft company which was most famous for designing bombers during World War II. And of course there's Kruger's flagship at the Hellhole - the FRLS Blitzkreig.

There's some confusing Civil War stuff, too. There's a TCS Manassas, which was the Confederate name for the Battle of Bull Run (which the South won). There's a TCS McClellan, after a Union General who has been demonized for his for his poor handling of the war.
 

FlashFire82

Spaceman
AKAImBatman said:
The difference is that "Tarawa" is a proper name on its own. Therefore, people don't feel the need to tack "Atoll" on the end of it. "Wake", however, is a generic term and thus sounds improper without "Island" tacked on the end. Quite a few people probably used the name "Bikini" for the atoll up until the derived swimsuit name came into use. (The bikini was supposed to have an "atomic" effect on men. Get it? No, I don't either.) Now it is unlikely that you'd hear someone refer to it without "Atoll" on the end. ('Lest they die of embarassment. :D)


Seems logical to me.
 

Eder

Mr. Standoff
...except for the fact that you're arguing a moot point. You're arguing that *real people* call a *place* "Wake Island" because "Wake" is a generic term. So far so good, makes sense - you've got me convinced... But that doesn't have anything to do with the subject at hand. :p

That reasoning *must* not apply to the carrier, because FA tells you that a *WC pilot* in the 2660's calls the *carrier* "Wake" - generic term or not, that's what he does and what he seems comfortable with. He didn't say "the TCS Wake", "the Wake Island", or "the TCS Wake Island", which going by your logic, is what you'd expect him to do.

If anything, your logic is reversed when it comes to the carrier. Even though there's no evidence pointing to this direction, let's assume for a minute that the carrier actually was named "TCS Wake Island" by Confed (also assuming that the WW2 "Wake" is the place Confed meant to make a reference to). What then? Well, that doesn't change anything. FA still tells us that "people" still call the carrier simply "Wake". Not only do people feel no need to tack "Island" to the end of the ship's name, but rather, they might have removed that part from the name in everyday speech if it was present in the carrier's official designation (perhaps because they don't know of such a place or historical event or just because they might have shortened the carrier's name since they refer to the carrier in their daily lives more commonly than to an island that's half a universe away).

15-word version: You're arguing that people wouldn't call a carrier "Wake" without saying "Island", when that's the only thing FA tells us about the carrier. :p
 

AKAImBatman

Spaceman
Eder said:
...except for the fact that you're arguing a moot point. You're arguing that *real people* call a *place* "Wake Island" because "Wake" is a generic term. So far so good, makes sense - you've got me convinced... But that doesn't have anything to do with the subject at hand. :p
Yes it does. All I was trying to explain was why people keep accidently putting "Island" on the end of the name. Nothing to do with disproving the carrier's name. :D
 

Eder

Mr. Standoff
My apologies, then. In that case, as I said, your explanation is a reasonable one... and I believe everyone who has doubts about the carrier's name may benefit from reading our little idea-tossing. :p
 
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