Wing Commander Rights

[DefianceIndustries]

In a way, the way it works today makes some sense. The retro craze depends on nostalgia and really those highlight titles are the ones that make older players with disposable income say, "Yeah, I remember that one, that was awesome!" But I agree, having a full catalog available would expose players to titles they may have forgotten or never had a chance to play. But the pricing would have to justify the expense of paying for the licence, storage, overhead costs, etc. Now if you modeled it off of EA's subscription service, (X amount per month for unlimited access), that might have some legs.

 

[Ijuin]

I remember hearing that Chris wanted to have StarCitizen use the Wing Commander license but that didn't come to pass.
If EA has no interest in pursuing their own WC titles so long as they have the Star Wars license any idea why they weren't willing to sell the rights to produce games? Was the money on the table simply not worth the time of such a large corporation?

Now that they have Star Wars, they have a perverse incentive to squash any competing projects--therefore it is in their interest to actively prevent any non-Star-Wars space opera type games from being developed . . . unless you can offer them even more money than Star Wars, that is.

 

[Jdawg]

Now that they have Star Wars, they have a perverse incentive to squash any competing projects--therefore it is in their interest to actively prevent any non-Star-Wars space opera type games from being developed . . . unless you can offer them even more money than Star Wars, that is.

I don't understand why everybody thinks there can't be more than one scifi IP. Star Wars is not really a space opera type game anymore, the last time it was anything similar to Wing Commander was what, tie fighter. EA could release Wing Commander in the summer, Star Wars game in the winter and a Mass Effect game in early spring and they all would sell well.

 

[centaurianmudpig]

I don't understand why everybody thinks there can't be more than one scifi IP. Star Wars is not really a space opera type game anymore, the last time it was anything similar to Wing Commander was what, tie fighter. EA could release Star Wars in the summer, another Star Wars games in the autumn, yet another Star Wars game in the winter and finally Star Wars game in early spring and they all would sell well.

I fixed your post

 

[Jdawg]

I fixed your post

how many superhero movies are coming out this yr alone. Marvel and Disney don't seem too worried about different super hero IP's feeding off each other and taking money away from civil war bc they all are going to make a ton of money.

Plus with the star war movies now claiming the holiday season as there time to release new movies, that will also be when EA will release all major star war games, to piggy back off the hype, and to get parents to buy the game for their kids for christmas. Just bc star wars is the biggest name in Scifi does not mean it will be the only one. Just look at 2015, the martian and star wars were both massive and I mean massive hits, and then ex machina got great critic recognition and award buzz with an oscar nomination too. So this is not like highlander lol, there can be more than one...... property

 

[ChrisReid]

The movie comparison doesn't work. Not only are games several times more expensive than even expensive 3D IMAX movies, people treat them different. People treat games more like an investment - mulling over the purchase of even $4.99 smartphone games (that's why freemium and in-app purchase became so popular!). People are more likely to go see movies every other week than buy a game every other month.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Not to mention that many of those superhero movies are themselves part of a messed up rights situation that ends in studios needing to make them regularly specifically to keep Disney from having 'the' Marvel franchise.

 

[Captain Obvious]

Not to mention that many of those superhero movies are themselves part of a messed up rights situation that ends in studios needing to make them regularly specifically to keep Disney from having 'the' Marvel franchise.

This.

Also what's probably an entirely different discussion, how do you think the news of a new Chris Roberts-less Wing Commander in the face of Star Citizen would go down not just among Wing Commander fans but the gaming community at large? It would be interesting.

 

[Pedro]

This.

Also what's probably an entirely different discussion, how do you think the news of a new Chris Roberts-less Wing Commander in the face of Star Citizen would go down not just among Wing Commander fans but the gaming community at large? It would be interesting.

My eagerness for anything Wing Commander would outweigh any reservations but the general gaming community wouldn't have the same investment in the franchise.

 

[AD]

How the gaming community at large would react to a new WC announcement would depend in large part on

a)which studio/figurehead is leading up the project?
b)How much free reign do they have under EA.
c)What kind of unique take they use to distance them selves from "star-citizen-cash-in" claims.

The current gaming media is just to cynical and interested only in mocking things to be truly excited about anything these days, especially when a big studio/publisher is involved.

Given all involved, for the forseable future that just makes it more of a given that we'd likely see a new Star Wars game come out of any full-owned EA studio before we would see a WC title. Which is unfortunate in some ways (sure an indie dev who buys a license to the IP could be a good thing) since the initial complaints about a third party stepping in will be a nonsense argument that they are just trying to cash in on the WC name given Chris Robert's success.

The best bet that something like this could get off the ground would be somehow Chris Roberts jumping on as some kind of honorary Executive Producers, or some other long standing WC vet taking the helm. Some kind of (as much as I'd just like the series to move forward) retro focus on a WC2 animated style could work. Otherwise you end up having to go the opposite direction and compete directly with Star Citizen with the ultra realistic look, and I don't honestly feel a new WC title (at least not the first itteration) would have anywhere near the budget of Star Citizen. The main focus would have to be on story though.

 

[ChrisReid]

Also what's probably an entirely different discussion, how do you think the news of a new Chris Roberts-less Wing Commander in the face of Star Citizen would go down not just among Wing Commander fans but the gaming community at large? It would be interesting.

I think you may have a somewhat vocal plurality of folks that are vested in Star Citizen who may be somewhat indifferent if not mildly antagonistic towards the idea. There's that a prevailing anti-EA sentiment that will creep into some of that chatter, but also this sentiment is most popular among the type of people like us who like to post our opinions on message boards - the mainstream gaming community at large sees EA as the powerhouse behind Madden, Battlefield, The Sims and many other franchises (Star Wars!), and I do believe these people will be all in if EA were to throw their weight behind it. There's also a decent sized third group of people who grew up on Wing Commander - may or may not be very interested in Star Citizen - but wholeheartedly want a new Wing Commander game. I expect these people will be the new influx audience of the CIC if a new game were to materialize. I think it's easy to forget these people exist, but I actually run into them every single day on social media. It's part of my daily routine to search Twitter/etc for "Wing Commander," and I constantly find random people talking about WC fondly with their friends. They often are completely out of the WC community/Star Citizen loop, and I get a lot of follow-backs when I reply to their questions with relevant links to the CIC articles and things like that.

There's also an entirely different scenario where Wing Commander returns, but not by way of the big budget EA or Star Citizen esque route. I would personally be very happy for WC to pop up in some niche genre: 4X strategy game, a sequel to WC Arena, some Sid Meier iPad experience, etc. It could return in comic book form or new novels. There could be a badass RPG or board game. Any of these routes could continue expanding the universe, which is actually what I'm more interested in than playing a modern space sim, but that's not to say that an eventual space sim would be out of the question if any of these alternate paths became sufficiently popular.

 

[Lilja]

As for Wing Commander, why would they sell something off when they don't need to?

Because in its initial stages SC was prob a joke to some of the game companies. Yes Mr Roberts has a history, but who in their right mind would want to pay for a game that you wouldn't get for a few years, the market may change and well it prob won't happen anyway?. Now Mr Roberts and SC has broken a great number of world records held by other games. Either way with selling off Wing Commander, EA would have lost, if it does badly or fails, then they can't do something later, if it succeeds well then they have certainly lost out.

People are more likely to go see movies every other week than buy a game every other month.

PC games perhaps, but not console games. I worked with an avid console gamer, he only traded in 2nd hand games. So a week or so after a game release he'd get a game spend every possible moment playing through it then when he finished it (a couple of days later), he would go round comparing all the trading shops and get the next newest release. He reckoned that doing it that way he'd only be paying a couple of pounds / dollars for each game. The market for a 2nd hand game a few weeks after release is huge, on a number of games he traded it back in for more than he got it for.

 

[Captain Obvious]

There's also a decent sized third group of people who grew up on Wing Commander - may or may not be very interested in Star Citizen - but wholeheartedly want a new Wing Commander game. I expect these people will be the new influx audience of the CIC if a new game were to materialize. I think it's easy to forget these people exist, but I actually run into them every single day on social media.

Honestly this is the group I belong to which is why I put forth the question as I have very little experience with the Star Citizen community. I have a ship but I've only mucked around with the alpha stuff for about and hour and I don't follow any of the news. It's something I look forward to playing when it's done (Squadron 42 particularly) but I've largely been avoiding the hype.

I think the idea of EA licensing to an interested indie developer sounds like a solid idea (Assuming the good folks of the CIC would be a part of the process to make sure the game rocks!) and it wouldn't conflict with their AAA plans for Star Wars. Maybe I only like the idea because I have a soft-spot for the sprite based games.

 

[Jdawg]

Because in its initial stages SC was prob a joke to some of the game companies. Yes Mr Roberts has a history, but who in their right mind would want to pay for a game that you wouldn't get for a few years, the market may change and well it prob won't happen anyway?. Now Mr Roberts and SC has broken a great number of world records held by other games. Either way with selling off Wing Commander, EA would have lost, if it does badly or fails, then they can't do something later, if it succeeds well then they have certainly lost out.




PC games perhaps, but not console games. I worked with an avid console gamer, he only traded in 2nd hand games. So a week or so after a game release he'd get a game spend every possible moment playing through it then when he finished it (a couple of days later), he would go round comparing all the trading shops and get the next newest release. He reckoned that doing it that way he'd only be paying a couple of pounds / dollars for each game. The market for a 2nd hand game a few weeks after release is huge, on a number of games he traded it back in for more than he got it for.

thats my pt. the day of games never going on sale are far gone. I got mgs5 for 25 dollars 2 months after it came out brand new. Gamers buy new games all the time. there is more than enough room especially when it comes to digital sales, companies no longer have to buy retail space, and spend money on boxes, or manuals, I miss those game manuals, but I heard more copies of battlefront were sold digitally than in box form.

 

[Jdawg]

Not to mention that many of those superhero movies are themselves part of a messed up rights situation that ends in studios needing to make them regularly specifically to keep Disney from having 'the' Marvel franchise.

also bc they make money, xmen is hugely sucessful and even the amazing spiderman 2 made a lot of money. Fox is looking to make shows out of the x men universe and the advertising is so on pt for deadpool I will not be shocked if the movie opened up with over 100 million dollars on a 35 million dollar budget

 

[Jdawg]

The movie comparison doesn't work. Not only are games several times more expensive than even expensive 3D IMAX movies, people treat them different. People treat games more like an investment - mulling over the purchase of even $4.99 smartphone games (that's why freemium and in-app purchase became so popular!). People are more likely to go see movies every other week than buy a game every other month.

I would think most triple a games are on par with summer blockbuster movies, I mean star wars cost 200 million to make and Mgs5 had a budget of 80 million to make not counting advertising for either project

 

[Lilja]

Gamers buy new games all the time. there is more than enough room especially when it comes to digital sales

isn't it something stupid like 40 % of steam games haven't been downloaded. I certainly have a few that I haven't played for a long time and prob wont play again.

 

[Jdawg]

isn't it something stupid like 40 % of steam games haven't been downloaded. I certainly have a few that I haven't played for a long time and prob wont play again.

Exactly I just did a humble bundle for a dollar to play XCOM and it came with 3 other games, and the only other game I will play besides XCOM is probably Sid Meier's pirates bc that game is freaking awesome lol. that is of course after I beat metal gear Solid 5, I have 50 hours into it and I love it probably the most playable game of last year the controls are exquisite.


Back to digital sales I heard the re release of Psychonauts on Steam pushed it way into the black, because it did not sell very well when it first came out. now they are making a sequel because of those sells and because of crowdfunding

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Because in its initial stages SC was prob a joke to some of the game companies. Yes Mr Roberts has a history, but who in their right mind would want to pay for a game that you wouldn't get for a few years, the market may change and well it prob won't happen anyway?. Now Mr Roberts and SC has broken a great number of world records held by other games. Either way with selling off Wing Commander, EA would have lost, if it does badly or fails, then they can't do something later, if it succeeds well then they have certainly lost out.

It wasn't really a joke; that's just how all projects work... a big modern game can take five to seven years.

But you touch on something very important: if I as an EA executive greenlight Wing Commander 7 today, I'm not just comitting $40-$100 million of shareholder money to the idea... I'm also betting hard that anyone is going to care about a new Wing Commander game not today but in 2020 when it would be done. Maybe Star Citizen is the way of the future and I'd be making a very smart bet to take advantage of that... or maybe it'll be long forgotten. But I *can* know (and can explain to my shareholders) that Star Wars is an evergreen property... putting the resources into it today means I'll be selling games years out.

I think you may have a somewhat vocal plurality of folks that are vested in Star Citizen who may be somewhat indifferent if not mildly antagonistic towards the idea.

The great irony is that I'd be the first person in line to see a new Wing Commander game even if it weren't from Chris. I may have been the only person genuinely excited at the news that Piranha had picked up the license. (Though of course the sheer mess that became is another argument why not to do it, I suppose...)

My personal hope is to bring back the Wing Commander universe more... for us. Novels, roleplaying sourcebooks, etc. Sort of like Star Trek did between the series, with offshoot universes like the FASA stuff or Starfleet battles... (or Star Wars did with the EU, back when we were a little more honest about that )

 

[Jdawg]

It wasn't really a joke; that's just how all projects work... a big modern game can take five to seven years.

But you touch on something very important: if I as an EA executive greenlight Wing Commander 7 today, I'm not just comitting $40-$100 million of shareholder money to the idea... I'm also betting hard that anyone is going to care about a new Wing Commander game not today but in 2020 when it would be done. Maybe Star Citizen is the way of the future and I'd be making a very smart bet to take advantage of that... or maybe it'll be long forgotten. But I *can* know (and can explain to my shareholders) that Star Wars is an evergreen property... putting the resources into it today means I'll be selling games years out.




The great irony is that I'd be the first person in line to see a new Wing Commander game even if it weren't from Chris. I may have been the only person genuinely excited at the news that Piranha had picked up the license. (Though of course the sheer mess that became is another argument why not to do it, I suppose...)

My personal hope is to bring back the Wing Commander universe more... for us. Novels, roleplaying sourcebooks, etc. Sort of like Star Trek did between the series, with offshoot universes like the FASA stuff or Starfleet battles... (or Star Wars did with the EU, back when we were a little more honest about that )

I could see that fear with EA, but I think if they did come with a more modest budget of 20 to 30 million, and play up the nostalgia factor, there is no doubt that they would make their money back and then some, as long as they make a good product. A good example of this is the new king's quest game, the publisher struck when the iron was hot bc adventure games are on a comeback; it was made on a modest budget and def plays off nostalgia for the series, but it is also a really fun and enjoyable adventure game. It is selling well, without having a huge marketing budget.