Wing Commander Comeback

Darkmage

Vice Admiral
Quarto, I wasn't saying WC3 wasn't a success. I meant that WC hadn't been a popular large scale success since WC3 (which was a success) whereas wc4 whilst still a popular game, was not anywhere near as much of a financial success costing $11 million US to make. Sure EA sold a lot of boxed copies of WC4 but it didn't manage to achieve close to what WC3 did in terms of finance. What are the sales figures for Prophecy? They made the game with a much smaller budget compared to WC4 and as far as I know while successful it wasn't a blockbuster title by any means. That combined with the current apparent decline of the genre has probably made EA hesitant to release a new game. IMHO FMV is unlikely now unless EA decide to pick up the story from Prophecy, as indicated above the return of old actors is pretty unlikely so there's not much need to continue using FMV acting. The story can be transmitted ingame with animated characters rather than being shot on film. The big drawcard for Red Alert 3 using FMV was the reprisal of Kane's role by the original actor.
 
FMV seems to be making a small come back lately. I find that to be at least a little encouraging. Wing Commander is synonymous with FMV game to a lot of people.

Everything with a surviving fan base (and some things without) gets remade sooner or later.
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
Quarto, I wasn't saying WC3 wasn't a success. I meant that WC hadn't been a popular large scale success since WC3 (which was a success) whereas wc4 whilst still a popular game, was not anywhere near as much of a financial success costing $11 million US to make. Sure EA sold a lot of boxed copies of WC4 but it didn't manage to achieve close to what WC3 did in terms of finance. What are the sales figures for Prophecy? They made the game with a much smaller budget compared to WC4 and as far as I know while successful it wasn't a blockbuster title by any means.
Well, naturally WC4 wasn't as much of a financial success - but what you said specifically was that it didn't earn back its costs. This is not the case. It's just that its profit margin was significantly smaller. As for WCP, 700,000 units sold is a lot by any definition. The problem was more a case of timing - had WCP sold those 700,000 units a year earlier, it would have guaranteed a sequel. But in 1998, EA was already looking elsewhere, at the growing MMO market.

That combined with the current apparent decline of the genre has probably made EA hesitant to release a new game. IMHO FMV is unlikely now unless EA decide to pick up the story from Prophecy, as indicated above the return of old actors is pretty unlikely so there's not much need to continue using FMV acting.
Heh, well, yeah, I guess it wouldn't be possible to start an all new story with all new characters, or cast different actors to play familiar characters. I mean, sure, it worked in Privateer, Privateer 2, and WCP, not to mention dozens of films and TV series but... nah, no way that could work :p.

(also, about Kane - really, I'm pretty sure the people at the top at EA, the ones who decide which projects get the green light, happen to have no idea who Kane was, who played him, and do not consider Kane to be a drawcard. Neither, for that matter, do the fans. Yes, Kane reappearing had that "oh, cool" effect, but do you really think there's even a single person out there who bought the new C&C because Kane is in it, and would not have bought it had Kane not been in it? Such a creature does not exist...)
 

Vipor_GG

Spaceman
Everybody forgets that most of the Wing Commander series, including their favorite games and awesome new things like Star Soldier, were only made possible by EA taking a chance on Wing Commander. There haven't been many WC games lately, but EA does still continue to produce and publish other great games - Warhammer Online, Rock Band 2, Dead Space, Left 4 Dead and Red Alert 3 are all super games that have just come out in the last few months.

I haven't played Star Soldier .I don't even know what type of game it is .As for an Online game by EA I will not fall for that again .I still remember Motor City Online .I had to pay about $60 for the game to start with .Get a new video card to get a decent frame rate .Then where I lived at the time my only internet access was dial-up so I had 2 modems 2 phone lines 2 ISPs .Then I had to pay $10 a month to play it . Then I could play it was great I even went out and bought a MS Force feed back Wheel and pedals it was a blast .Then about 1 year later EA got me again they shut down the server .They did offer a copy of The Sims Online, Ultima Online, or Earth & Beyond ,but I wasn't interested in any of those .Rock Band I bought Guitar Hero World Tour .Dead Space Doom in 3rd person on a space ship .Left 4 Dead Quake on steroids .Red Alert 3 RTS yawning I'd rather watch a movie ,mow the grass ,rake the leaves ,or pluck out my eyes and stick them back in the wrong sockets .

I like Space Games like WC ,Star Lancer ,Privateer ,Tacyon the Fringe ,Freelancer ,Darkstar One ,X-wing Tie Fighter .I also like driving games and have several Need for Speed games .Every one of them has problems .The last one I bought is Most Wanted .Thought EA finally got it right .Wrong when I got to the #2 ranked on the black list EA installed oil injectors in front of all four tires on my car .I can start the race and my car (any of the 10 I have) is sliding all over the place .If I exit the race my car suddenly handles normal again .

Privateer is still my favorite game ever with WC a close second then the rest of these types of games .I would loves to see something new in the WC Priv Universe .I will not be holding my breath though .EA can sit on their rears and not make games I like that is their choice to make ,but other companies are making games I like to play and I buy them .

Vipor_GG
 

Dundradal

Frog Blast the Vent Core!
I haven't played Star Soldier .I don't even know what type of game it is .

Star*Soldier is the manual for Wing Commander Arena. You can find it here It's an amazing piece of WC canon. You certainly enjoy it.
 
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Vipor_GG

Spaceman
Oh that's why I didn't know about it .It's for XBox .I don't have XBox nor am I going to get one as I already have a PC and PS .Thanks EA WC has been a PC game from the beginning now after years of waiting they release something new ,but do it for X-Box ???

Well thanks for the info Dundradal ,but I'll keep waiting .Someone will make another game that I will like .

Vipor_GG
 

AD

Finder of things, Doer of stuff
Oh that's why I didn't know about it .It's for XBox .I don't have XBox nor am I going to get one as I already have a PC and PS .Thanks EA WC has been a PC game from the beginning now after years of waiting they release something new ,but do it for X-Box ???

Well thanks for the info Dundradal ,but I'll keep waiting .Someone will make another game that I will like .

Vipor_GG

It's a Live Arcade release. It was never intended as a full scale game. This is hardly something to go off on EA about. It's just a fun little multiplayer mash-em up set in the WC universe.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Rock Band I bought Guitar Hero World Tour .Dead Space Doom in 3rd person on a space ship .Left 4 Dead Quake on steroids .Red Alert 3 RTS yawning I'd rather watch a movie ,mow the grass ,rake the leaves ,or pluck out my eyes and stick them back in the wrong sockets .

Even the regular internet people have abandoned the 'EA is evil!' schtick recently. In the past year their PR campaign has gone so far as to have John Riccitiello directly apologize to fans for mistakes he made with Origin and Bullfrog -- and they've put a heck of a lot of money into risky, experimental titles again (in addition to those above -- Spore, Mirror's Edge, Boom Blox...).

Thanks EA WC has been a PC game from the beginning now after years of waiting they release something new ,but do it for X-Box ???

Wing Commander has always been a cross-platform game. The original was available for the PC... and the Super Nintendo, Sega CD, Amiga, CD32, FM Towns and PSP. Regardless of that, though, almost every big budget game today is going to be a console game -- because consoles make up *so* much more of the market now than they did ten and twenty years ago. If you're going to spend $20 million on a video game in 2009 then it's a sure bet that it's either an MMO or a cross-platform title.
 

Vipor_GG

Spaceman
Even the regular internet people have abandoned the 'EA is evil!' schtick recently. In the past year their PR campaign has gone so far as to have John Riccitiello directly apologize to fans for mistakes he made with Origin and Bullfrog -- and they've put a heck of a lot of money into risky, experimental titles again (in addition to those above -- Spore, Mirror's Edge, Boom Blox...).

Don't get me wrong I don't think EA is evil .They just sometimes do some of the most ignorant things I've ever been witness to .And their games except for WC (they had few problems for me anyway) are junk .I meen every EA game I have is poorly done or has problems or both .Example NFS H P you meet a cop that's driving a SUV on a mountain road Your running 100-130 MPH in a sports car .In 10 seconds the cop in the SUV turns around and runs you down .Give me a break .Most wanted there are police sedans that run over 200 MPH .I understand it is a game ,but what is the point in making your car faster if sedans can still stay with you .I mean 200+ MPH that is even pushing it for Corvettes .

Wing Commander has always been a cross-platform game. The original was available for the PC... and the Super Nintendo, Sega CD, Amiga, CD32, FM Towns and PSP. Regardless of that, though, almost every big budget game today is going to be a console game -- because consoles make up *so* much more of the market now than they did ten and twenty years ago. If you're going to spend $20 million on a video game in 2009 then it's a sure bet that it's either an MMO or a cross-platform title.

I understand the reason for cross-platform the more platforms you cover the more games you can sell .I own a PS2 with a large stack of games to go with it .I love playing it and was about to buy a PS3 until I found out that the new PS3 systems will not play PS2 games .That is a crock there is no way I'm buying a new system if it will not play the games I've already bought .On the other hand not counting upgrades this is probably about my 5th or 6th PC with my 5th operating system and I can still play the same games I was playing on the first .As for consoles Play Station is the only one I would spend my money on but it would have to support the games I have now .

Vipor_GG
BTW I bought the PS2 to keep my granddaughter off my computer .:p
 

ChrisReid

Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
The big drawcard for Red Alert 3 using FMV was the reprisal of Kane's role by the original actor.

Well, the obvious flaw here is that neither Joe Kucan nor the Kane character were in Red Alert 3.

As for an Online game by EA I will not fall for that again .I still remember Motor City Online

You can't cite their worst case example and broadly apply it to all online EA games. The gigantic counter example is that the first widely successful online game, Ultima Online, was made by EA and is still humming along after a dozen years.

Rock Band I bought Guitar Hero World Tour .Dead Space Doom in 3rd person on a space ship .Left 4 Dead Quake on steroids .Red Alert 3 RTS yawning I'd rather watch a movie ,mow the grass ,rake the leaves ,or pluck out my eyes and stick them back in the wrong sockets .

Okay, we get it, you're too good to play all the new fangled games that kids are raving about these days. I generally think driving games are pretty stupid, but that doesn't change the fact that many are highly rated, sell a lot of copies and are well received by the majority of players (like all of the above games that I listed) - which makes them good games.

I don't have XBox nor am I going to get one as I already have a PC and PS .Thanks EA WC has been a PC game from the beginning now after years of waiting they release something new ,but do it for X-Box ???

As others have said, WC has also been a console game from the beginning and many of us got our start playing the WC series on consoles more than fifteen years ago. The XBox alone is a much bigger market than the PC for EA and every other major publisher these days. Given these two things, it shouldn't be surprising at all that the latest Wing Commander game is for XBox.

was about to buy a PS3 until I found out that the new PS3 systems will not play PS2 games .That is a crock there is no way I'm buying a new system if it will not play the games I've already bought .On the other hand not counting upgrades this is probably about my 5th or 6th PC with my 5th operating system and I can still play the same games I was playing on the first .

The comparison isn't the same. There's a clear lineage from DOS to Windows 95 to to XP and Vista. These operating systems were designed to run on (faster and faster) versions of the same hardware. In a scenario like that, it's plausible to find that many old games will still work today (though this certainly hasn't always been the case... from about 1998 until DOSBox in 2004 there was no way to run Privateer on a Windows machine. many old PC games are still incompatible with modern computers).

But with each new console, you have an entirely, and often radically, different set of hardware and operating system software. It's a nice bonus that a PS2 can play PS1 games, but that's because there's basically a miniature PS1 inside a PS2 box. When you bought a PS2, you bought a PS1 and a PS2 in the same case. When you buy a PS3, you're buying a PS3. If you also want to buy another PS2, they still make them and you're free to get one. If I wanted to play PS3 games, I wouldn't miss out on the opportunity to do so because Sony refused to sell me a PS2 and a PS3 on the same piece of plastic.
 

Jason_Ryock

Vice Admiral
It's a nice bonus that a PS2 can play PS1 games, but that's because there's basically a miniature PS1 inside a PS2 box. When you bought a PS2, you bought a PS1 and a PS2 in the same case. When you buy a PS3, you're buying a PS3. If you also want to buy another PS2, they still make them and you're free to get one. If I wanted to play PS3 games, I wouldn't miss out on the opportunity to do so because Sony refused to sell me a PS2 and a PS3 on the same piece of plastic.

I think it was also a very bold marketing move - the fact that the PS1 was the first system to switch to a CD-style disc arrangement meant that the First PS2 was the only 'second generation' console (as we called them at the time) that would be completely backwards compatible. It's my believe that netted Sony a large portion of the market. I know I would not have purchased the three PS2's I've gone through in my life time if I had not been able to play my PS1 games on them as well.

I think they totally dropped the ball - the PS3 was the first EVER opportunity for a system to be double backwards compatible - playing games from three generations of systems (without requiring an additional purchase - as the WII does to play old Nintendo games, something that bothers me quite a bit, as I have the original games sitting on their cartridges and now I'm paying for them again! Though I have to admire the marketing strategy HERE too.).

They had every opportunity to do something completely unique...and they flopped. Some PS1 games still don't run. Some others require a patch. Some third set work just fine. And the PS2 games are in the same boat.

Not only did they flop on this - but the Wii made old Nintendo games available - not 'second generation' or 'first generation' games, but the very first games fans remembered playing. Come on Sony, get with the ball game. It's almost as embarrassing as their lack of an online network to play games on.

People are bashing EA (though as noted above, alot less). But me? I'd like to be a fly on the wall at a Sony Meeting. Some of their decisions make me question those guys sanity.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
They just sometimes do some of the most ignorant things I've ever been witness to .And their games except for WC (they had few problems for me anyway) are junk .I meen every EA game I have is poorly done or has problems or both .Example NFS H P you meet a cop that's driving a SUV on a mountain road Your running 100-130 MPH in a sports car .In 10 seconds the cop in the SUV turns around and runs you down .Give me a break .Most wanted there are police sedans that run over 200 MPH .I understand it is a game ,but what is the point in making your car faster if sedans can still stay with you .I mean 200+ MPH that is even pushing it for Corvettes .

If it makes you feel better, EA just canned the Need for Speed series and fired the entire development team following poor reviews of the last game.

The comparison isn't the same. There's a clear lineage from DOS to Windows 95 to to XP and Vista. These

While that's objectively true, the fact that they launched with PS2 support and then dropped it does make the (very expensive) PS3 purchase a more difficult decision.

Not only did they flop on this - but the Wii made old Nintendo games available - not 'second generation' or 'first generation' games, but the very first games fans remembered playing. Come on Sony, get with the ball game. It's almost as embarrassing as their lack of an online network to play games on.

I actually think Nintendo went wrong here. Their virtual console is such a cool idea... but their ability to offer interesting third party back-catalog stuff is very lacking. I've played the original Mario/Zelda/Sonic/etc. on five different systems now. What made the PS2 neat wasn't that it saved you an input on your TV -- it was that you could now go back and pick up, for cheap, the PS1 games that you didn't have the money/time/interest to experiment with before.
 
I never cared for the Virtual Console, but that's mainly because I already collect retro video games. The only thing that I really liked is I always wanted to play Sin and Punishment. If they used it to release more games like this that never made it to the West but have generated interest, or like say the finished Star Fox 2 beta, I'd be more interested.

Maybe they I have I'm not sure I haven't really kept up with it because I don't own a Wii and most of my friends have gotten tired of theirs.
 

Vipor_GG

Spaceman
You can't cite their worst case example and broadly apply it to all online EA games. The gigantic counter example is that the first widely successful online game, Ultima Online, was made by EA and is still humming along after a dozen years.

It may be the worst case example ,but it was also my first and only experience with MMO .I will never buy a game that I have to rely on the company to keep a server running to play it .MCO was popular there were people actually buying and selling rare items on e-bay .There is still a forum for former MCO players .

Okay, we get it, you're too good to play all the new fangled games that kids are raving about these days. I generally think driving games are pretty stupid, but that doesn't change the fact that many are highly rated, sell a lot of copies and are well received by the majority of players (like all of the above games that I listed) - which makes them good games.

I don't "get it" I'm not too good to play the new fangle games .I have several Guitar Hero games and every time I go in a store that has one on display kids are playing them usually with more kids waiting to play .I enjoy GH a lot and am thinking about buying the couple that I don't have .As for shooters I've been gaming longer that most of the kids have been living and I sorry ,but there is only so many ways to shoot bad guys .I'm bored with them .RTS & TBS to me is like watching a movie that makes you give imput every couple minutes .I don't like all driving games .Only the ones that you can earn money (credits or points) and upgrade and customise your car .The ones that you just race I don't even download the demo .One of the things I liked about Privateer was upgrading and trying differant things .

As others have said, WC has also been a console game from the beginning and many of us got our start playing the WC series on consoles more than fifteen years ago. The XBox alone is a much bigger market than the PC for EA and every other major publisher these days. Given these two things, it shouldn't be surprising at all that the latest Wing Commander game is for XBox.

I still can't figure out where all those X-Boxes are as I only know two people that own them .A coworker of mine has one and he has had to send it back twice to be repaired .My brother has five of them for him and his kids and every one of them has been sent back at least once .Everyone else I know has PS 2 or 3 or Wii .X-box appears to not be very reliable and I not sure if you can watch movies on them .And I know you can't watch movies on the Wii .So for me that only leaves Playstation .

The comparison isn't the same. There's a clear lineage from DOS to Windows 95 to to XP and Vista. These operating systems were designed to run on (faster and faster) versions of the same hardware. In a scenario like that, it's plausible to find that many old games will still work today (though this certainly hasn't always been the case... from about 1998 until DOSBox in 2004 there was no way to run Privateer on a Windows machine. many old PC games are still incompatible with modern computers).

Actually I played Privateer all along until my AWE32 sound card quit and I couldn't find anouther one with dos support .I simple had dos 6.22 on a bootable Zip-Drive with Privateer installed to the zipdisk .

But with each new console, you have an entirely, and often radically, different set of hardware and operating system software. It's a nice bonus that a PS2 can play PS1 games, but that's because there's basically a miniature PS1 inside a PS2 box. When you bought a PS2, you bought a PS1 and a PS2 in the same case. When you buy a PS3, you're buying a PS3. If you also want to buy another PS2, they still make them and you're free to get one. If I wanted to play PS3 games, I wouldn't miss out on the opportunity to do so because Sony refused to sell me a PS2 and a PS3 on the same piece of plastic.

Actually I could understand it if that were the case ,but the first release PS3 did play PS2 games .Then Sony took it out and made you buy a patch to play them .And now they have taken that option away also .I just built this computer from the ground up for less that $500 it will play games from over a decade ago as well as the new games .80 gig PS3 $400 will only play new games ,DVDs ,and HD DVDs .My PC has 500 gig HD and also plays DVDs and HD DVDs I can also get on the internet with it .Right letters ,Print documents and photos .Keep track on my bills and bank accounts .Plus much more .

The question is where is the price justification for a PS3 .I'm not poor ,but I'm not rich either .I don't think being able to play games that I already own on a system that I already know is capable of doing so is too much to ask .

Vipor_GG
BTW I'm glad I found this place haven't had real feed back since the days of the WOO board .I do miss LW and the GGs though .
 

Dundradal

Frog Blast the Vent Core!
I still can't figure out where all those X-Boxes are as I only know two people that own them .A coworker of mine has one and he has had to send it back twice to be repaired .My brother has five of them for him and his kids and every one of them has been sent back at least once .Everyone else I know has PS 2 or 3 or Wii .X-box appears to not be very reliable and I not sure if you can watch movies on them .And I know you can't watch movies on the Wii .So for me that only leaves Playstation .

There is an entire list of CIC users that have XBoxes. You need only look at the list of Xbox Live Gamertags

Early Xbox 360s did have some issues, they have long since been resolved though. I've had mine for almost 3 years now and it works great. Even if your friend sent them all back, it was only once to fix the problem. I imagine they've worked perfectly since.

You've been able to watch DVDs on Xboxes since the black boxes. Xbox 360s even have the option of using NetFlix that directly downloads movies to the hard drive of the box.

XBox Live is an amazing network. It is far superior to that offered by PS.

PS3's play Blu-Ray DVDS, not HD DVD. Xbox 360 has a separate HD DVD drive you can buy, buy considering it is not the format of choice I imagine most users (including myself) have not purchased one. I don't even own a DVD player since I've been using my Xbox 1 and 360 as one for years.
 
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Vipor_GG

Spaceman
If it makes you feel better, EA just canned the Need for Speed series and fired the entire development team following poor reviews of the last game.

Actually I would rather they just get it right as I like the general idea of the game .It's just that somewhere between the idea and the store shelf someone drops the ball .I feel bad for people who loose their jobs ,but a company can't afford to keep people employed that are not producing .

While that's objectively true, the fact that they launched with PS2 support and then dropped it does make the (very expensive) PS3 purchase a more difficult decision.

I guess I didn't word my original post about the PS3 very well that is what I meant by the "new PS3s" .I guess PS3 is still concidered new even the first release .I meant the latest ones to be released .But it makes the decision easier for me as I'm not buying it .

I actually think Nintendo went wrong here. Their virtual console is such a cool idea... but their ability to offer interesting third party back-catalog stuff is very lacking. I've played the original Mario/Zelda/Sonic/etc. on five different systems now. What made the PS2 neat wasn't that it saved you an input on your TV -- it was that you could now go back and pick up, for cheap, the PS1 games that you didn't have the money/time/interest to experiment with before.

Don't know much about Nintendo as the only ones I've played are friends .As for the PS2 I bought it because of several things .I never owned a PS1 ,but liked the idea that the PS1 games would work on it as well .The price $120 new .$70 used at Game Stop .It plays DVDs so I don't have to have a DVD player and a game console .As I said earlier I mainly bought it for my Granddaughter .

Vipor_GG
 

Vipor_GG

Spaceman
There is an entire list of CIC users that have XBoxes. You need only look at the list of Xbox Live Gamertags

Early Xbox 360s did have some issues, they have long since been resolved though. I've had mine for almost 3 years now and it works great. Even if your friend sent them all back, it was only once to fix the problem. I imagine they've worked perfectly since.

You've been able to watch DVDs on Xboxes since the black boxes. Xbox 360s even have the option of using NetFlix that directly downloads movies to the hard drive of the box.

At least Xbox gives you something more than a game console ,but I'd still be stuck with two game consoles or having to buy all new games .

Vipor_GG
 
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Gungnir77

Spaceman
It would be very hard to re-capture the awesomeness of the original. THe hardest part would be to make it newand add enough features to keep the interest of gamers in this new market, while keeping the aesthetics and feel of the original series. Man that would be so awesome!
 
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