Wing Commander 3/4 Flightsuits and Uniforms for wc3

Darkmage

Vice Admiral
I remember hearing a while back that the wc3 uniforms were modified janitor outfits. Is there any information available on these as well as the wc3/4 flightsuit designs? I really like the visual style used for the space suits in wc3/4 and am considering a cosplay in one or the other. Also, is there any information available on the fighter pilot helmets? Afaik they were modified motorcycle helmets. Is anyone making these/are they available, and if not, what type/model of helmet was used? Are any high res pics available of any of the mentioned items?
 

Max Gene

Spaceman
If the WC3/4 uniforms were modified janitor's outfits, someone needs to post how to modify them, as far as I'm concerned.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
I remember hearing a while back that the wc3 uniforms were modified janitor outfits. Is there any information available on these as well as the wc3/4 flightsuit designs? I really like the visual style used for the space suits in wc3/4 and am considering a cosplay in one or the other. Also, is there any information available on the fighter pilot helmets? Afaik they were modified motorcycle helmets. Is anyone making these/are they available, and if not, what type/model of helmet was used? Are any high res pics available of any of the mentioned items?

I can't say for sure, but I'm pretty sure this was more of a derogatory thing than it was an actual story of behind-the-screens genius. They ended up *looking* like baggy janitor jumpsuits (especially compared to the snappy Wing Commander II outfits)... :) The bottom half of the Wing Commander movie outfits *were* modified snowsuits, though.

I actually have a binder of information about the development of the costumes for WC3 at home, including things like fabric swatches. I'll scan that all someday. I seem to recall that the last time someone tried to contact the actual costumers (LeHah?) they said they couldn't reveal what were still technically trade secrets.

... and I have a helmet I can photograph, too. The back is a motorcycle helmet... the front is a specially made plastic piece glued in place over the helmet's opening. It doesn't indicate what the make of the helmet is; if we have a motorcycle helmet expert about then maybe he can figure it out (it's the less important thing in terms of 'cosplay', though, since most helets will look right with the frontpiece attached).

(I also have Hobbes' helmet, which is an entirely fabricated piece. The same mould was used for the Kilrathi helmet, painted a different color.)
 

Darkmage

Vice Admiral
Awesome post, thank you LOAF. I am definately interested in how that helmet plate is designed. From what I could see in the wc4 dvd clips there's a definite edge to it where it joins the helmet.

The wc3 "janitor's suits" weren't that bad IMHO. I guess in a war spanning thousands of worlds with billions involved there would be more focus put on making the uniforms comfortable/easy to move in versus being too formal and expensive to manufacture. Personally I have always preferred that style of dress to the wc4 uniforms. Not really sure why it might just be because it's got that early 90's feel to it. (been playing a lot of early 90s games I tracked down for the 3do there's some really bad titles in there as well as some really awesome ones. The guy who sold me the console threw in need for speed, syndicate, and theme park)
 

Wedge009

Rogue Leader
I don't recall having an issue with the uniforms when I first played WC3. Or even now. But the WC4 uniforms do look very nice indeed.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
It's not that there's anything wrong with them per se... it's just that they're a departure from the "fancy" World War II-styled uniforms in Wing Commander I and II. Baggy and utilitarian instead of sharp lines and shiny metal.
 

ELTEE

Vice Admiral
It's not that there's anything wrong with them per se... it's just that they're a departure from the "fancy" World War II-styled uniforms in Wing Commander I and II. Baggy and utilitarian instead of sharp lines and shiny metal.

Perhaps incorrectly, I just assumed that everyone still had those dress uniforms from WC1 and WC2 - it's just that as the war continued dragging on, I could see less emphasis being placed on them.

It's not unlike what's happened in the army today. There's far less emphasis on drill and ceremony as compared to ten years ago at any level - from basic on up. This is simply a matter of function (though I admire the marines - they have continued to honor their traditions, which is not easy to do in these times.)
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
It's a reasonable thought, except that we see separate dress uniforms in Wing Commander II (Blair wears one in the intro, IIRC).
 

ELTEE

Vice Admiral
That's true - do we think they can co-exist?

The tan uniforms in WC1 seem to be more in the traditions of 'duty' uniforms, while the dress uniforms in WC2 are certainly a step up. This makes sense, also, considering that even during medal ceremonies in WC1, you're still on the ship surrounded by your squadron mates. In WC2, you are presumably at a trial, or the sentencing portion - it would be much more formal, and the level of dress would undoubtedly be much higher for such an occasion.

I guess the bigger question centers on the duty uniforms of the Concordia. They definitely are blue in any of the rec scenes - I don't see the pilots still maintaining the tan uniforms as well, although one never knows. Presumably, they would still exist as there are no ribbons worn on those blue uniforms - they could be a step down.

Plus, IIRC, Halcyon wears some sort of similar blue uniform in WC1 when performing duties. Plus, the flight deck uniforms for the pilots are pretty similar form WC1 and WC2. It's an interesting study in design.
 

Mace

Vice Admiral
It's a reasonable thought, except that we see separate dress uniforms in Wing Commander II (Blair wears one in the intro, IIRC).

I always questioned that introduction, the back of the box art shows blair in his WC1 uniform, claiming he is innocent. Yet the WC2 does not show only a different uniform, it shows the "aged"(10 years older) version of him explaining himself to tolwyn, as you see(or are) him through the rest of the game. While the shot I mention is very likely an early draft that had been cut out of the final release, I still keep wondering why it kept re-appearing on the revised CD editions that included expansion packs. And at another wild guess that very rendered room had been re-used for Jazz's courtmartial in SO2?
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
That's true - do we think they can co-exist?

*spits* Wing Commander uniforms do not co-exist.

Seriously, though, I would say that the thing that bugs me the most about the Wing Commander III duty uniforms is that they were clearly--at one point in the process--supposed to look like those svelte Wing Commander II uniforms (that and the strange shift in insigna, from modern military emblems to futuristic squares and triangles).

I'm sure there are plenty of in-continuity explanations for changes in uniforms (not the least of which being that Tolwyn was probably a bit more stringent about uniforms on the Concordia than Eisen was on the Victory...) -- but after a point it just gets silly since there are *so* many different styles out there.

The tan uniforms in WC1 seem to be more in the traditions of 'duty' uniforms, while the dress uniforms in WC2 are certainly a step up. This makes sense, also, considering that even during medal ceremonies in WC1, you're still on the ship surrounded by your squadron mates. In WC2, you are presumably at a trial, or the sentencing portion - it would be much more formal, and the level of dress would undoubtedly be much higher for such an occasion.

I guess the bigger question centers on the duty uniforms of the Concordia. They definitely are blue in any of the rec scenes - I don't see the pilots still maintaining the tan uniforms as well, although one never knows. Presumably, they would still exist as there are no ribbons worn on those blue uniforms - they could be a step down.

Wing Commander II has all-blue duty uniforms and white-and-blue dress uniforms; the ribbons are removed from all -- likely to save memory so that the game can store single male, female and Hobbes paper dolls instead of different graphics for each person.

I always questioned that introduction, the back of the box art shows blair in his WC1 uniform, claiming he is innocent. Yet the WC2 does not show only a different uniform, it shows the "aged"(10 years older) version of him explaining himself to tolwyn, as you see(or are) him through the rest of the game. While the shot I mention is very likely an early draft that had been cut out of the final release, I still keep wondering why it kept re-appearing on the revised CD editions that included expansion packs. And at another wild guess that very rendered room had been re-used for Jazz's courtmartial in SO2?

Good eye. What you see on the box is the original version of the intro, which used Blair's old head and a special court room background. This was cut and the scene rewritten to take place in Tolwyn's office. It's hard to imagine today, but that change saved a lot of memory (remember, it had to fit on seven 1.2 mb disks).

I can speak to why it kept reappearing, too, from having gone through Origin's publications office archive. They had a set of high resolution promotional slides used for advertising made from screen shots... and they reused those same screenshots for everything rather than paying to have more made (if you look closely at all the WC1 screenshots you'll see that they're of a much earlier version of the game too - different weapons and wingmen and FX graphics). Rereleases like the deluxe editions were designed to make money at no cost, so new out-of-house print material wasn't budgeted for.

(And yes, that's why the court reappeared in SO -- they'd already done the work creating it.)
 

Chuckles

Commodore
Speaking from my own military experience, different classes of uniforms is definately viable. As for the uniform changes over the course of the series, I can't offer explainations, but I can offer justifications.

For the clash between the old tan shirt uniforms in WC1 and the dress uniform when Blair gets his sentence read to him, LOAF is right in that these uniforms can co-exsist. From my time in the US Army, we had about 5 kinds of uniform classes we'd wear on any given occasion.

-PTs: For morning PT and specific duties/tasks (like moving wall lockers between barracks)
-BDUs: The usual duty uniform for the day to perform nearly all tasks and duties. While no ribbons, some awards would be displayed.
-Class Cs: The first step of the formal wear, where all ribbons and most awards would be displayed. Light green dress shirt and dark green pants. Reserved for company/battalion level inspections/events.
-Class Bs: The "Booger Suit" as it was lovingly referred to as, adding the green jacket and all ribbons and all awards were worn. Reserved for brigade/division level inspections/events.
-Class As: The high end of dress uniforms, blue pants with a yellow stripe, white dress shirt, and navy blue jacket with accompanying headgear, and all ribbons and awards would be worn. Reserved for special events.

Generals/Admirals don't always wear the highest class dress. They wear the duty uniform often enough as anyone else.

As for the loss/disappearance for the tan shirt uniform, I can offer two justifications.

-Hot/Cold Uniforms: Probably more noticed on US Navy servicemen. During the hot months of the year, the Navy's first style of formal uniform is the bright white suits with short sleeves. However during the cold months of the year, they switch to a black dress theme with long sleeves. For this case, it's context sensitive. Though admittedly it's the least likely explianation.

-Wear It Because We Told You To: Best illustrated by the US Army adopting the ACUs. Sometimes the military will change its uniform, even in times of war. It could have been for money/materials reasons, or simply because it thought it was time for a change. It's one of the more arbitrary and least explained reason, but it's ultimately the more correct one.

So while there is a bit of clashing of the uniforms in the Wing Commander series, real world military uniforms aren't that far off/behind.
 

Mace

Vice Admiral
You forget the practical reason;

Although i do not see myself happening entering a fighter cockpit in jeans and a leather jacket, there is also a practical reason.

You do not walk around in a ceremonial uniform with polished decorations all day long when you are supposed to be ready for a scramble at any given moment.
 

ChrisReid

Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
loafhobbes.jpg


jhat-2.jpg


jhat-3.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:

ELTEE

Vice Admiral
So while there is a bit of clashing of the uniforms in the Wing Commander series, real world military uniforms aren't that far off/behind.

Too bad they got rid of the army dress white uniforms (mess dress, I think they called it?) I have only seen a few officers ever in it, but it sure looked pretty good.

Of all the services, the marines have really managed to maintain their uniform and d&c heritage the best. It pains me to say it!

I certainly missed earning ribbons etc in WC2. It would be fun in a later game to have the design of some of those campaign awards revealed to us.
 

Kuhuna

Rear Admiral
So while there is a bit of clashing of the uniforms in the Wing Commander series, real world military uniforms aren't that far off/behind.


It's even more varied during a uniform changeover. Right now, you could see...at least 18 uniforms in the US Navy, counting the various flight deck uniforms as one and combining chiefs and O's dress whites and blues as one, since they're the same clothing with different insignia. And that's not counting our little sisters, the USMC (still a part of the D.O.N.)
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
Bandit LOAF said:
I seem to recall that the last time someone tried to contact the actual costumers (LeHah?) they said they couldn't reveal what were still technically trade secrets.

You're thinking about the time I contacted Angels & Bermans - who did the costuming for the WC Movie. I had asked them for the patterns the movie costumes were from and they kindly told me to take a walk, in a very british fashion.

I've dug around more than once looking for the "uniforms" from WC3 (and by osmosis - the UBW uniforms from WC4) to no effect. They're obviously utility uniforms: my university has security officers wearing somewhat similar garb during the winter (shoulder pads, name tagged - though with weird forearm cuffs and more "winterized"). I flipped through the Aramark catalog and found nothing.
 
Top