Why was the traitor sub plot cut out?

Delance

Victory, you say?
Well, I was looking at IMDB and got the following info from this URL:

http://us.imdb.com/AlternateVersions?0131646

"The film was originally shot with a sub-plot involving Admiral Bill Wilson as the traitor that compromised the Pegasus station. There were a number of scenes between Wilson and Bokoth, the commander of the Kilrathi battle group, but since the Kilrathi puppets weren't realistic enough this sub-plot had to be cut out."

So by the IMDB the reason the sub-plot was cut out is because the puppets didn't look good. However, I remember reading back on 1999 that the plot was cut out because most people didn't understand it at the test screenings. I'm not quite sure if I read this on the CIC or somewhere else. Anyway, which version is the correct one?
 
The traitor subplot was removed because people didn't remember Admiral Wilson from the beginning. It also didn't help that the anamatronic Kilrathi were bulky and didn't move all too well.

The traitor subplot is in the novel, since it was in the script handed to novelist Peter Telep.

The removal of the subplot also forced them to remove the scene of Sanski's hospital bed suicide (He was a Pilgrim sympathizer and poisoned himself after a transmission was decoded from him to Wilson) and the disappearance of Blair's Pilgrim's Cross, which ended up killing Admiral Wilson during a knife fight between Blair and Commander Gerald.
 
Yet they kept the scene where Paladin give's Blair his cross to replace Blair's missing one, which confused the hell out of the one friend of mine who actually noticed and didn't know the original plans for the story.
 
The smart thing to do would be write around that, not produce a second (or third) rate picture-which is what happened. It was on Sci-Fi last night and I watched. I noticed the amazing disapearing cross as well as some unexplained wounds on several characters. The script definitly needed another revision or two.
 
The cutting of the traitor plot was a last second thing. I doubt they had the time or money (or actors on contract) to reshoot anything at that point.
 
Originally posted by TC
The cutting of the traitor plot was a last second thing. I doubt they had the time or money (or actors on contract) to reshoot anything at that point.

They should've kept it. Really. Almost no one cared about the plot, followed it, or was engaged. At least it would make sense for the poor folk who was paying attention and wasn't a fan with inside information.

Traitor subplot worked great on WC2. Too bad it wasn't on WC.
 
I first saw it with my friends and they were all boring cause of the cheap scenario!I was not ,cause I was exciting!When I saw it again,I really noticed that the scenario is very....poor.....

The traitor scenes should be included......
 
Look, SW:ANH had cheaper scenarios than WC:Movie. The thing was the script. Non-Fans didn't care at all. I do beleive the traitor plot should be included, but the whole pilgrim thing should be removed.

I remember an older script that sounded much better. I'm not sure if this script was official or not, I read it a long time before the movie was released. Thre were no pilgrims. The Kilrathi are preparing for an Attack. Tolwyn is leading the Confed forces. He has a plan to defeat the Kilrathi, but in order for it to work he must sacrifice the Tiger's Claw to buy some time. Take that and put some cool subplots like Blair/Stealth Fighters/Tolwyn unfairly blaming him plus a tratior subplot a la WC2 and you'd have a winner.

If the TC is sent to be sacrificed, people would feel for them. Unfairly blame someone, people love to hate that. Pilgrims and people who hate half-breeds. Uh, what? Let's compare what the mentors on space movies say:

OBI-WAN: "Use the force, Luke."
PALADIN: "It's not faith, it's genetics"

Wow, worst dialogue than TPM. That's an accomplsiment by itself.

It's a sad thing that all Wing Commander interactive movies have better plots than the actual movie.

Now I know a lot of people will disagree with such notions, but please take a look on this review by Roger Ebert. It's show what went wrong with the movie...

http://www.suntimes.com/ebert/ebert_reviews/1999/03/031208.html

"The plot involves war between the humans and the Kilrathi, who have refused all offers of peace and wish only to be targets in the cross hairs of video computer screens. Indeed, according to a Web page, they hope to ``destroy the universe,'' which seems self-defeating. The Kilrathi are ugly turtleoid creatures with goatees, who talk like voice synthesizers cranked way down, heavy on the bass.

Against them stand the noble earthlings, although the film's hero, Blair (Freddie Prinze Jr.) is suspect in some circles because he is a half-breed. Yes, his mother was a Pilgrim. Who were the Pilgrims? Humans who were the original space voyagers and developed a gene useful for instinctively navigating in ``space-time itself.'' (Just about all navigation is done in space-time itself, but never mind.) Pilgrims went too far and dared too much, so timid later men resented them--but if you need someone to skip across a Gravity Hole, a Pilgrim is your man."


As you can see, people didn't buy the Pilgrm thing. It distracted them. Also, Ebert is correct about the Kilrathi in the movie. In the games and novels, they make sense. But they were not well done in the movie, and that's not only because of the animatronics. They shoud've started with "In the future, Mankind is Locked in a deadly war..."
 
Wow, since when are you to say what should remain and what should be removed? I like the Pilgrim thing, it's really well explained in the movie follow-up novel "Pilgrim Stars".

As for that older script, you literally just gave us the same story as the movie, except theres a Skipper Missile instead of a Stealth Fighter.

Yes, the removal of the traitor subplot was last minute and seriously removed a lot of the dramatic core of the film. Roberts did it though, since he wanted to return and do another WC movie using the traitor scenario as the basis. He also wanted to try doing the Kilrathi with CGI.

TPM had great dialouge! Some of the performances sucked eggs. Actually, most of the performances did outside of Ian McDiramid.

The fact that you reference Roger Ebert, the lowliest of all film critics (he liked Fear Dot Com, fer crissakes), shows you lack the ability to make arguements yourself and bad taste in who backs you up.

As for giving background to the WC history, one only needs a 90 second attention span and decent eye sight and hearing to see that the entire opening credit sequence was all the background you needed.
 
Hey, maybe the traitor subplot was cut out so that those who know about Colson and hate traitors wouldn't hunt down the actor and kill him. :p
 
Originally posted by LeHah
Wow, since when are you to say what should remain and what should be removed? I like the Pilgrim thing, it's really well explained in the movie follow-up novel "Pilgrim Stars".

Hmm... That was, of course, IMO. Explaining the plot of the movie on a follow-up novel doesn’t chance anything. But hey, if you liked it, good for you.


As for that older script, you literally just gave us the same story as the movie, except theres a Skipper Missile instead of a Stealth Fighter.

The Stealth Fighters were not on the old script. It was a reference to the plot of WC2. And the scripts are very different: The movie didn't explore the dramatic theme that they are a tactical sacrifice. You know, the recurring WC theme… End Run, the most popular novel…


TPM had great dialouge!

"There's always a bigger fish". Yeah, right.


The fact that you reference Roger Ebert, the lowliest of all film critics (he liked Fear Dot Com, fer crissakes), shows you lack the ability to make arguements yourself and bad taste in who backs you up.

You liked Wing Commander and the dialogue of TPM? That’s a confession of bad taste AFAIK. But hey, everyone can have their own opinions, right?

Please note, however, that I wasn't using Ebert’s opinion to back my own. I was using him as an example of how an outsider saw the movie. Fans know all about WC, but most people don't. Kilrathi wanting to “destroy the universe” didn’t help. You have any idea how destructively stupid that phrase is? It was even translated into the synopsis on foreign countries.


As for giving background to the WC history, one only needs a 90 second attention span and decent eye sight and hearing to see that the entire opening credit sequence was all the background you needed.

Correct me if I'm wront, but I have the impression that it is your opinion that WC is a masterpiece misunderstood by critics and audience. You know what? That's just fine. Just allow people to have different opinions.

The movie failed because it failed to generate interest on the viewers. Sure, action was great. Nobody cares about sound in space. But the public was not engaged on the story, and didn't care about the characters. Not the heroes, and certainly not the villains.
 
So was the whole Sansky commiting suicide, the knife fight between Blair and Gerald, etc.,etc.,etc. kept in the novel?:)
 
yes.

just a tip. read the whole thread b4 you ask a question. you may find that it has already been asked and answered:D
 
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