Who to vote for? (for US President)

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vindicator

Rear Admiral
I know I am gonna get slaughtered for this but,

I Don't think a NASA program is viable at this point, although a positive step we just don't have the money to be wasting on it. They keep raising the retirement age and fully phased in is supposed to be 68 and they are talking about raising it more. NASA is not necessary, many other programs as well, need to be cut back, including Social programs. and a reformed medical system. We can worry about space in 600 years when real money goes out of style and we use the Federons from solar quest as money.

-Rance-
 

Spien

Spaceman
That was kind of harsh. He has some valid points. I don't think NASA should be one of the biggest concerns right now either. There's bigger fish to fry.

I don't think NASA is useless or unneccesary or something like that, but I do think it's not going to do us a whole lot of good at this point in time. If there wasn't so much money going towards Iraq and the War on Terrorism I might feel diffrently about NASA's funding, but really it's unrealistic to give NASA more money right now. If we worry more about fixing Earth we won't have to look towards space to find more resources to horde and places to live, after all.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Rance is just trolling, though. I'd be happy to have that debate with someone who has half a brain and actually cares about the topic.
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
I think it goes without saying that a person with "half a brain" would be at least interested and respectful toward our space program.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
The idea of dedicating your resources simply to maintain the status quo is, in my mind, a sign that a civilization has passed its peak. There will always be "important" day to day issues but we can't let them overshadow the idea that we can work towards being something better than we are.

In more straightforward terms: the war on Terror is fine, but it's nowhere near as "important" as the cold war was. Religious extremists blowing up buildings is shocking and terrible, but it's nowhere near the threat to world that mutual assured destruction was... and we managed to get above all of that and go to the moon.

And think about it historically: in a thousand years or ten thousand years, what event will stand out to history? The fact that a bunch of countries that don't exist anymore fought a bunch of other countries that don't exist anymore? World War II is big and romantic, but eventually no one will care. It'll fall by the wayside into all the other ancient wars. People in the future will look back and say that the 20th century is when we went into space -- and right now we have to decide if we'll be the generation that kept at it or the one that gave up.
 
Hmm. I have a great deal of respect for the things in the past that NASA has accomplished. But, it needs to be regulated federally but financed by private interests. Out government is generally to slow unless its superiority is threatened, then it hits flurry of activity then dies back down when the status quo is acheived.

As for presidents...I do not like either candidate, I was almost to young to remember Clinton, or at least his first term. But my middle class families actually prospered underneath his leadership. With Bush, especially this "No child left behind" thing just seems to be cranking out a new generation of lower to middle class employees who cannot afford to send thier children to Private Schools to get a better education. This is getting increasinly bad in cities, as people with money move to suburbs and school budgets plummet.

Its actually kind of frightening, I love america, but I hate the government. The career politician is something I cringe at.
 

Commissar

Spaceman
Wow... I think this thread kind of went off on a tangent.

If anything, this political discussion has actively gotten me back to posting on the forums, so I have to be happy about that. What I'm *not* happy about is the fact that some people seem to be taking this a bit seriously. *Too* seriously.

Chill, Lehah: I don't hate you and I certainly don't want you to hate me. This thread was entertaining, to me, for its general goofyness and true off-topic discussion. I mean, where else can I talk about political figures flying Hornets in the vaccum of space?

The point is, if this were a serious discussion, I'd take it seriously. It started off innocent enough, but the last thing I want to see happen is a bunch of people hating each other for no reason. If you want to know my views, simply enough:

* I <3 NASA (yes, I really do "heart" it)
* I could care less about terrorism (just wish the candidates could, too)
* I am strictly anti-war, unless it's *totally* unavoidable
* I still believe in Howard Dean.. and I'm not afraid to admit it ^_^

So, then, back to the main topic...
...
...
... I actually agree with Loaf. 10,000 years from now, this election won't matter. At all. Assuming records survive until then, though, people will look back on the 20th century as a century of flight, much as the 1400's and 1500's were the ages of conquest and exploration. Does it matter who the King of Spain was in 1492? Does it matter that Columbus really *didn't* discover America? Of course not... but it *is* human history, and an important bit of it, at that.

My candidate? I liked Dean, but he's long gone. I like Edwards, but he's running VP. In all honesty, I **really** don't like John Kerry... but I can't vote for Bush. Sorry guys :-P

So, let's drop everything and get back to having fun, eh?

...and Iceman, I think Kerry could take Thrakhath, any day of the week :)
 

vindicator

Rear Admiral
Eh, typical, insult my intelligence when you don't like my statement of my beliefs. I at one time, believe it or not, paid taxes. I believe that the government spends too much money on stupid things and never answers for it. It is not their money, it's the people's. If we ran it my way, I'd require the people pass a vote on the yearly goverment budget See, the only problem with that, is that people generally are too lazy to really condsider the real issuses, mostly voting on value systems. LOAF's predicted response: Stupid, Stupid, Stupid. I suggest for those of you that are intelligent and care about the issues facing our country, that you go ahead and vote for no one, because like LOAF said, it won't matter in a hundred years so why does it matter now?

Also, I didn't say I have no respect for the space program, I said that I didn't see it as viable. Please don't twist my statements to fit your small mind.
 

Trelane

On my way to court in a suit and a tie
vindicator said:
Eh, typical, insult my intelligence when you don't like my statement of my beliefs.

To be fair to LOAF though, you are pretty unintelligent.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Eh, typical, insult my intelligence when you don't like my statement of my beliefs.

I don't like lots of peoples beliefs (this largely overlaps with lots of people being stupid, but it's not a clean enough cut or a reasonably obvious enough thing to convince anyone of)... but you're the joke candidate. Your IRC career consists of "look at me, I'm so special! Hyuck, hyuck, hyuck!" and your Chat Zone posting history consists of showing up when you want to fight over something ("SO HOW BOUT THAT RELIGION HUH???").

You're a sad little person who is the punchline to our jokes, not someone who's done anything to earn the honor of intellingent debate.

I at one time, believe it or not, paid taxes.

Oh, well, that makes everything different! Of course your opinion must be intelligent and well thought out, if you paid taxes!

I believe that the government spends too much money on stupid things and never answers for it. It is not their money, it's the people's.

You didn't think this reasoning through.

The government got this money from me! It therefore must be my money!

So where'd you get that money from in the first place?

Unless you're minting your own coinage, then your stupid money game from the damn government in the first place and by your established logic wasn't *ever* yours! (And if you are making your own money, the government probably isn't taxing it.)

If we ran it my way, I'd require the people pass a vote on the yearly goverment budget See, the only problem with that, is that people generally are too lazy to really condsider the real issuses, mostly voting on value systems.

The "only" problem is that this isn't how the government works. We're not in magical poney land (note I say we) - the solution to the worlds problem isn't to go "hay guyz lol no more representational democracy" for the simple reason that doing so is an impossibility.

LOAF's predicted response: Stupid, Stupid, Stupid.

I don't think I predicted that. But you are pretty stupid.

I suggest for those of you that are intelligent and care about the issues facing our country, that you go ahead and vote for no one, because like LOAF said, it won't matter in a hundred years so why does it matter now?

That seems to contradict with:

Also, I didn't say I have no respect for the space program, I said that I didn't see it as viable. Please don't twist my statements to fit your small mind.

See, kid, I appreciate this line of reasoning... except in order to make it work you have to actually pick something I said to complain about. You can't make up a statement and then go "AND THEY SAID THIS ABOUT ME".
 

Spien

Spaceman
Ah, I see now. I sincerely apologize for trying to defend vindicator.

We need NASA so we can determine if ants can sort tiny screws in space.

I was thinking about something along those lines too :), I just couldn't think of any goofy NASA experiments off the top of my head.
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
The Amazing LeHah Forsees The Answer Through A Sealed Envelope

Answer: Rance

Question: Who needs to be properly educated in common sense and stop spouting unfitted opinion based on nothing but short-sighted self-interest and a false sense of "the greater good".

Commissar said:
Chill, Lehah: I don't hate you and I certainly don't want you to hate me. This thread was entertaining, to me, for its general goofyness and true off-topic discussion. I mean, where else can I talk about political figures flying Hornets in the vaccum of space?

Spacebattles come to mind. :)
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Spien said:
I was thinking about something along those lines too :), I just couldn't think of any goofy NASA experiments off the top of my head.

It's a legitimate complaint, and it's because NASA has had to suffer under the same short sightnedness that people like our friend Rance display ever since the late sixties.

To recieve any money at all, NASA has had to justify itself in an immediate cost benefit sense... so instead of dedicating money to exploring the universe, they're stuck using it do to LEO experiments that have neglitable applications. Why do we have a space shuttle? Because it was sold on its military uses (spy satellite payloads, etc.). Why do we have a space station? Because it was sold as an international relations point rather than any sort of stepping stone to a bigger goal.

That's why Bush's space policy is neat - it's more than just a little budget increase (nice as that is)... it's a new specific goal. And that goal is the same sort of 'screw everyone' Bush administration deal that the internet loves to jack off about -- except this time it's a case where it really works well. Screw playing with ants in low earth orbit in order to impress the Russians and start dedicating money to going to Mars... and that's great.
 
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