What is with the Nephilim?

[Shane]

This reminds me of Greek mythology.
From the Titans to the revolt of the gods,
to the revolt of man against the gods -
the different ages - the golden men...
The Greek is a bit of a defeatist from the way they write their myths and legends.
Man always got battered.

Life was difficult and dangerous in anchient Greece. The mythology came up to answer the question of why life seemed unfair and why bad things happened to good people. Religion has always kind of served that purpose. It helps bring the rain. If it doesn't rain, then the sacrafice made was tainted somehow.

 

[Quarto]

Shane said:
Life was difficult and dangerous in anchient Greece. The mythology came up to answer the question of why life seemed unfair and why bad things happened to good people. Religion has always kind of served that purpose. It helps bring the rain. If it doesn't rain, then the sacrafice made was tainted somehow.

Mhmm... and the Kilrathi live to fight. So, don't you think that they would come up with that "we aren't worthy" explanation of they were not allowed to fight?

If some of them got killed in an orbital bombardment as you suggest, then the explanation wouldn't be "we aren't worthy", but rather "they weren't worthy".

 

[Shane]

Mhmm... and the Kilrathi live to fight. So, don't you think that they would come up with that "we aren't worthy" explanation of they were not allowed to fight?

If some of them got killed in an orbital bombardment as you suggest, then the explanation wouldn't be "we aren't worthy", but rather "they weren't worthy".

They weren't allowed to fight. Their army was assembled and then destroyed without the Kilrathi firing a shot (or whatever phrase you would use.) The Star Gods may have told them something to the effect that their force was not worth fighting. I see it playing out like this. BTW, I'm sure my scripting sucks.

(Scene)
Kilrathi army assembled for battle.

(Camera pans over Kilrathi army and Star Gods ship or temporary base or fighting force and then zooms in on reviewing stand. Stand consists of Clan leaders and a delegation or representative of the Star Gods.)

SPOKESCAT OF THE CLAN LEADERS: We have asembled our army. Sahll we begin the battle?

Star God: You call this rabble your army. Pagh! You are not worthy of a real battle. Klik-klik-klikklak (or however you wish to write down Nephilim speech, it translates to Fire at will)

Fire from the sky smotes the Kilrathi force. Not much but ash remains. Kilrathi leaders look on in stunned silence.

Nephilim delegation leaves.

<End of scene>

Rough concept, needs refinemnet, but you get the genral idea.

 

[Quarto]

At which point, Shane, the Clan Leaders shrug and say "They weren't worthy anyway. But the Star Gods didn't strike us down - so we obviously are worthy."

Alternatively, they'll say "Pah! Those Star Gods are vile, despicable, and dishonourable creatures! They use their vile magics to destroy our brethren, because they are too afraid to face us as true warriors, in combat!"

 

[KillerWave]

Ok, i will give it a try in a theory here, i just looked at all the teories and put something togheter...

When the bugs first came, they attacked Kilrah with an orbital bombardment or something like that, so the kilrathi seeing fire comming down from the sky, they thought their gods were angry with them for some reason, so maybe another race came, fought the nephilim and drove them off kilrathi space, sealing the wormhole, then they came down on Kilrah, and talked to the survivors that the enemy would return someday to fight again, or something like that, then they leave. Then the kilrathi asumed that they "wherent worthy"...
Or maybe they where just caught in a battle bettwen the bugs and some other race (or maybe even some renegade bugs or something), that at the end of the battle drived them away from kat space preventing them from returning for some reason.
I think that for the bugs, building a wormhole 4000 years before, would be much more difficult than it would be now to them, if not impossible at the time, so they would came in jump by jump (like confed), a exploratory force perhaps...
This is just something i thought, fell free to say that im wrong...

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Well, its classified... i mean, i could tell you, but then i have to kill you...

 

[JoeyRP]

Or maybe they where just caught in a battle bettwen the bugs and some other race (or maybe even some renegade bugs or something), that at the end of the battle drived them away from kat space preventing them from returning for some reason.

Most probable!

I think that for the bugs, building a wormhole 4000 years before, would be much more difficult than it would be now to them, if not impossible at the time, so they would came in jump by jump (like confed), a exploratory force perhaps...

That is why it took 4000 years, there was'nt one. It could be the bugs relied on impulse power at that time.


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Turn me loose, Colonel.
This is what I live for!

 

[Rider]

HEY fellas whos the leader of the bugs?

 

[Shane]

Rider, never saw a leader. I'm assuming some kind of hive mind, which could help explain the coordination of the early attacks.

Quatro. Okay mister smarty pants

you come up with a theory. Note though, that the army was made up of the best the clans had to offer, I'm assuming. I can't see them putting the J.V. squad on the field. The Kilrathi would have a hard time of saying the warriors were unworthy but the leaders were worthy. I think some of the family memebrs of those killed would challenge that claim.

Killer wave. Sort of what I was arguing but in some ways clearer. I think the problem is with what Quatro points out from time to time, why aren't these others mentioned. Of course if it is two groups of bugs, I could see the Kilrathi saying that one bug looks like another so they must all be the same.


[This message has been edited by Shane (edited July 27, 2000).]

 

[Quarto]

Na-uh. If they had a hive-mind, they wouldn't be say things like "there is no true end", or "I am vanquished!". Such phrases require an ego, and a hive-mind means no individual egos.

First of all, the army wasn't made up of the best the clans had to offer, but rather the best a clan had to offer. I don't know about you, but I for one am highly sceptical about the idea of the Kilrathi being united 3000 years before humans even considered the concept of unity.

I'm contributing to this process by shooting down your theories

. That duty doesn't give me time to come up wih my own

.

 

[No Regret]

The bug leader? Probably the Mother Creature. ---> <dying bug>The Mother Creature shall avenge me</dying bug> I think it was.

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The time is near.
There are still quite a few days remaining.

Hail to the king, baby.
-Ash, housewares

I don't care for fame, power or money...
I just want to FIGHT!
-Sanosuke Sagara

 

[Shane]

Never caught that one, but I have a tendency to pay attention to my flying more that what they are saying.

Quatro. I wish a little more Kilrathi geography and history were known. I wondered about whthere or not it might have been a united army, but if it was one clan then you might have the problem you were describing. An army from each clan makes it more complicated. An army from the greatest clan at the time, perhaps? While they may not have been united all of them grudgingly admited this was the best clan? It may very well have been one clan, and it was their tradition. They rebuilt, over the years became a dominant clan and shaped the view of the rest of the clans on their view of the past. Think forced conversion.

 

[Quarto]

Probably just any old clan, Shane. Just look at the way Christianity spread, even though there wasn't anything special about the Chrisitians.

 

[Shane]

Probably just any old clan, Shane. Just look at the way Christianity spread, even though there wasn't anything special about the Chrisitians.

I think that was the mostly in agreement. Let me sit down in shock.

 

[Quarto]

Oh, don't worry

. I still don't think the Nephilem destroyed the army. So we're far from agreeing

.

 

[Shane]

Okay, I feel much better now

 

[TheBLACKLION]

Ok my question is this......Are they going to continue the game anytime soon or are we going to have to sit with are collective thumbs up our butts till they Continue the Wing Commander saga?

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BLACKLION
Special Operations

 

[No Regret]

Let's say the entire WC community is gonna have a lot of anal trouble in the following years (or at least until Unknown Enemy comes out).

------------------
The time is near.
There are still quite a few days remaining.

Hail to the king, baby.
-Ash, housewares

I don't care for fame, power or money...
I just want to FIGHT!
-Sanosuke Sagara

 

[Penguin]

My turn to take a stab at this.
Assuming that the Kilrathi myth is literally accurate the 'Star Gods' probably did land on Kilrah. They then challenged the warriors of Kilrah to battle. Assuming that the Nephilem are the Star Gods & that the Nephilem are a militarily based society like the Kilrathi, they probably did this for the following reason:
They wanted to enhance their own honour/personal or racial self esteem/pride by defeating the best any other world could produce. A soldier's ego is best inflated by winning battles over other people & using that victory as proof that the subdued peoples are inferior. We see a lot of this in our own history.
The Kilrathi probably considered the Nephilem to be gods because they mistook their technology for magic. Considering the competitive/rivalrous nature of the Kilrathi all the clans gather their armies for the climatic showdown. Any clan that failed to show would be seen as cowards - a fate worse than death in Kilrathi eyes. So the massed forces of the clans are seen as the army that the WCP manual refers to.
The Nephilem scorn the force & leave. The Nephilem action could be explained like this. The Nephilem, probably a small scouting party are intimidated by the sheer force of Kilrathi. Unwilling to appear weak to a race they probably perceive as a bunch of uncivilized savages the Nephilem claim that the Kilrathi are unworthy (via first contact they probably learned about Kilrathi honor & saw it as a convenient way to get out of this mess) & promise to return to battle when the Kilrathi are worthy. They then depart to gather reinforcements. Impressed by the Nephilem's technology/magic the Kilrathi have no choice but to believe that they are the one's that are unworthy.
Now for the 4000yr Nephilem absence. There could be many reasons for this. I think the real reason is the bugs simply forgot about the Kilrathi. Internal politics, wars, lack of technology or even sheer arrogance could account for the absense. Perhaps there was a great war in which bug technology was destroyed and they had to start over. This sort of thing happened in the Dark Ages of our world. Or perhaps they felt they were above equal and there was no need to return to the Kilrathi (fifteenth century Chinese exhibited similar notions & we have no proof that the bugs would feel inclined to honour any obligations they made, particularly to a race they perceived as inferior).

 

[Chernikov]

About that Mother Creature: could it be the Bug equivalent of a God?

 

[Knight]

Now for the 4000yr Nephilem absence. There could be many reasons for this. I think the real reason is the bugs simply forgot about the Kilrathi. Internal politics, wars, lack of technology or even sheer arrogance could account for the absense. Perhaps there was a great war in which bug technology was destroyed and they had to start over. This sort of thing happened in the Dark Ages of our world. Or perhaps they felt they were above equal and there was no need to return to the Kilrathi (fifteenth century Chinese exhibited similar notions & we have no proof that the bugs would feel inclined to honour any obligations they made, particularly to a race they perceived as inferior).

Ok, how about this, the bugs got here by going through jump points, same as we do now. 4000 years ago, they came here, did what Penguin and Shane have beent talking, left, and made all those jumps back to their homeland, no over the period of time they were gone, their people evolved jump technology, hence, when they got back and informed the big shots of this race halfway across the galaxy, which would be ready by now, they opened the gate and came back, only to find them gone, and then find the Confederation (acutally vice-versa, find Confed, then find the kats were gone......). May not look good on paper, but sounds good in my head

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Member of the LMG and hating it (Disgruntled Man)
Real heros wear SCBAs, not capes.--Me.