What is everyone's favourite fighter

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
LANCE.

Regardless, despite the fact that what they did was illegal, the Black Lance was part of Confed. It's quite possible that the Lances are still in service... they did leave them a designator, F-107.

There's a big difference between "I HATE THE BLACK LANCE BECAUSE THEY ARE EVIL" and "nothing the black lance ever touched existed because I say so". :)
 

Ghost

Emperor
If you (flying a Dragon) can see another Dragon Cloacked (the wireframe), the same mechanism can be installed in the others fighters, rendered the cloack useless, and like some hiden speak of Stilleto (in the 1st WCP mission), the bugs can see through the cloacks.
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
It's quite possible that the Lances are still in service... they did leave them a designator, F-107.
Considering how secretive the Black Lance was and that they were able to get the funding for a multi-zillion dollar superfighter, I think that even Confed didn't root out every last officer and crewman.

Considering how much of a completist Tolwyn was, I think that he had a contingency plan if the Black Lance was disolved or disassembled.
 

Oggy

Rear Admiral
do you mean sort of, the Black Lance strikes from beyond the grave? Maybe they could all embark on a mission through the wormhole to bug space since they are so "superior"
 

Raptor

Spaceman
There's a big difference between "I HATE THE BLACK LANCE BECAUSE THEY ARE EVIL" and "nothing the black lance ever touched existed because I say so". :)
Did I say anything about the Black Lance? Well, in this thread, anyway? :) The point I'm making is that not anything that has the same technology as the Dragon would be considered "Dragon class", as the Dragon is a specific rather than a gneral fighter type. Long range stealth fighters with M/AM engines existed long before the Dragon (i.e the Excalibur) so it's not like the Dragon is the proto-type of that class.

PS: As for hating everything the Black Lance touched, you do know that those Retaliator fighters the Border Worlders sre using in HTL are baserd on the Dragon? Or that I "designed" those particular fighters? :)

Best, Raptor
 

OriginalPhoenix

Professor Emeritus
Originally posted by Ghost
In the game ?????
I don´t remember to have infinite AB fuel ?
You don't have infinite afterburner in WCIII. But that doesn't mean the Excals didn't have M/AM engines (since they DID), just that they weren't terribly refined at that point. There was apparently a lot of engine development during the time of WCIII and WCIV, as evidenced by fighter-sized M/AM engines of the Excal and Drance (that's Dragon/Lance combined :) ), and the Ion engines of the Bearcat.
 

Ghost

Emperor
So why to put a M/AM engine to a fighter if it makes no great difference to the perfomance of the ship ? (AFAIK the velocity is a little faster than the others fighter ).
And isn´t the trick of the M/AM to have Infinite fuel, using the hydrigen of the space. (like the engine of the capships and Lance Fighter)
BTW the Excalibur has some sort of bussard ramscopes or collector ?
 

OriginalPhoenix

Professor Emeritus
M/AM is advantageous from a number of angles. M/AM uses the hydrogen of space, meaning less fuel requirements for the engines. It is more efficient, allowing for higher gun energy pools and faster shield recharge rates. And once refined, you get the unlimited afterburners.
 

Wedge009

Rogue Leader
Originally posted by AzraeL
Just 'cos the Dragon had a cloak doesn't mean they can see through it.
I'm working on the assumption that technology comes and goes in generations - similar to how guns can penetrate capship shields in some games, and not in others. As Ghost said, pilots flying the Lance/Dragon are already able to detect cloaked ships visually, I would expect radar detection to follow soon after. The next generation of cloak after the Blackfish will be ready when Confed R&D (or Origin/EA ;)) decides it is ready.

Originally posted by LeHah
Considering how much of a completist Tolwyn was, I think that he had a contingency plan if the Black Lance was disolved or disassembled.
Remnants of the Black Lance might be present, but I doubt they could cause a repeat performance, especially with people knowing about the original. I would hope that some of them are grateful not to have been found in the first place.

Originally posted by OriginalPhoenix
You don't have infinite afterburner in WCIII.
Would that mean the WCP/SO era Excaliburs have M/AM powerplants? I was under the impression that they were scaled down to reduce its cost, and I assume that means replacing the engine with conventional drives.

Originally posted by OriginalPhoenix
Drance (that's Dragon/Lance combined)
Lagon perhaps? :)
 

Knight

Spaceman
Originally posted by Ghost
In the game ?????
I don´t remember to have infinite AB fuel ?
IIRC Ghost, Rachel says something about it in the bar at the start of hte game before the Excals come into play. She's describing it to Blair. I think the mission after that is as far as I could get due to incompatibility problems that kept causing system freezes. I need to get that out and play it again try to get it to work....
 

AzraeL

Spaceman
Originally posted by Wedge009
I'm working on the assumption that technology comes and goes in generations - similar to how guns can penetrate capship shields in some games, and not in others. As Ghost said, pilots flying the Lance/Dragon are already able to detect cloaked ships visually, I would expect radar detection to follow soon after.
Not necessarily. The only cloaked ship you can fly in WC4 are the captured Dragonlances. It makes sense that a cloaked ship would transmit a small signal to enable it to be spotted by its wingmates - otherwise how do cloaked squadrons coordinate attacks, or simply hold formation. When you fly a captured Dralthi, you transmit the enemy IFF signal. Since you're flying a captured ship, you would use the captured signal to enable you to spot the enemy ships. It doesn't mean that other ships can detect the cloaked ships, without knowing the frequency of the detection signal.


Would that mean the WCP/SO era Excaliburs have M/AM powerplants? I was under the impression that they were scaled down to reduce its cost, and I assume that means replacing the engine with conventional drives.
There is a significant difference between the Excalibur's drives and the Dragonlance's. The Excalibur uses chemical afterburners (hence the fuel limit) and has a gun-regeneration of 25nJ/s, while the Dragonlance's reactor powers everything, including the afterburners, cloak, some pretty hefty Fission Cannon and still has enough juice left over for a gun-regeneration rate of 80nJ/s. It's like the difference between a 4-Cylinder engine and a V-24 Ferrari engine.
 

Wedge009

Rogue Leader
Originally posted by AzraeL
It makes sense that a cloaked ship would transmit a small signal to enable it to be spotted by its wingmates - otherwise how do cloaked squadrons coordinate attacks, or simply hold formation.
The detection appears to be by visual means only. If there were any transmissions, you should be able to achieve radar lock - even with non-cloaking ships.
 

AzraeL

Spaceman
Originally posted by Wedge009
The detection appears to be by visual means only. If there were any transmissions, you should be able to achieve radar lock - even with non-cloaking ships.
Only if you knew the correct frequency of the signal. That ONLY you, flying a captured fighter, can spot other cloaked Dragonlances does not surprise me in the least. Such an ability is almost an essential part of the cloaking package. I believe this effect is an intentional part of the cloak design, not a weakness or flaw of the cloak.

Still, as both you and I have said earlier, technology moves in cycles. Perhaps Confed can see through cloaks in Prophecy times, perhaps not. Tbe fact that there ARE still fighters equipped with cloaks suggests that they cannot, or at least the cloaking technology is still somewhat effective. What we know for certain is that the Nephilm CAN see through cloaks.
 

Wedge009

Rogue Leader
An EM emission is still an EM emission. A radio picks up loads of signals - it just filters out the ones which aren't relevent to your selected station. All a fighter would need to do is detect the strongest signal within a small radius - admittedly this might not be a very good technique in a region with lots of EMR, say near a pulsar.

But your second point is more convincing - there's really no sense in putting cloaks on Piranhas if other ships can see them. Although I suppose they'd be useful against Kilrathi raiders.

I just had a second thought. According to your theory, the Border Worlds Lances/Dragons could see other Drances because of the IFF transmissions, but shouldn't this be applied to other fighters? I don't think the other fighters are capable of seeing cloaked Drances. Also, if the Black Lance knew they had a shipment captured, it would make sense for them to change the IFF codes, wouldn't it?
 

AzraeL

Spaceman
Originally posted by Wedge009
An EM emission is still an EM emission. A radio picks up loads of signals - it just filters out the ones which aren't relevent to your selected station. All a fighter would need to do is detect the strongest signal within a small radius - admittedly this might not be a very good technique in a region with lots of EMR, say near a pulsar.
I had in mind something a little more discrete then an IFF signal. A low-power, narrow-band, varying signal would be very difficult to detect unless you knew exactly what you were looking for.


I just had a second thought. According to your theory, the Border Worlds Lances/Dragons could see other Drances because of the IFF transmissions, but shouldn't this be applied to other fighters? I don't think the other fighters are capable of seeing cloaked Drances. Also, if the Black Lance knew they had a shipment captured, it would make sense for them to change the IFF codes, wouldn't it?
Personally, I feel that this tends to support my theory. If cloaks have a flaw and can be detected, they should be detectable in any fighter. And yet they can only be detected by 'similar' ships.

Secondly, did the Black Lance know that their shipment had been captured, or simply destroyed? If you have some of your enemies top-secret fighters, you're not going to go and advertise it to them. Also, changing the emitter (?) may not be as simple as punching in a new code.
 
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