What I do NOT like about WC2

Concordia

Swabbie
Banned
1.) The fighters look cartoony
-I don't mean like WC, they were cool. But these fighters looked like manned-rockets and stuff than anything else...
-The Epee for example looked like a missile with a cockpit fused on the front, and enlarged dorsal-fins.
-The Sabre looked like a modern-day Vulcan-Bomber except it got these canards which look silly... they don't even look like they belong to the rest of the machine.
-The Broadsword: Don't get me started...

2.) The fighters are too small
-In WC1 they were huge, in WC2 they're suddenly small.
-I mean significantly: The Epee for example, is like 12.4 meters (that's under 41-feet to anyone who does not know metric)... that's even smaller than the F-16, which is by far our smallest fighter... It can even be fitted to carry a torpedo! It's carrying a weapon that is almost as big as it is! That's insane!
-The Rapier shrunk 5-meters. And it actually has an increase in weapons capacity. How did that happen? And there are jump-capable versions of the Rapier that are 19 meters long.
-The Sabre, a fighter with a TURRET, room to carry an escape-pod, 8-missiles, or 6-missiles, and 2-torpedoes... or even in one case 8-TORPEDOES!!! --Is only 23.6 meters long... These torpedoes are 10 meters long. That's like a B-52 carrying two 75 foot long bombs... I don't just mean aircraft for test purposes, I mean like in active-surface, a B-52 routinely carrying 2-75-foot long bombs under it's wings.... with provision to carry Eight. Just imagine a B-52 carrying 8 X-15's under it's wings...

3.) The hardpoints are external
-External hard-points increase radar-cross-section making it easier to detect you...
-External hard-points can be shot off! That's particularly dangerous with torpedoes which are equipped with ANTI-MATTER warheads and can go up in a terrific fireball if one of them gets hit!
-At least WC3 is smart enough to carry them internally...

4.) Tolwyn has a cape!
-What are they thinking? This isn't the 18th Century! This is the 27th Century.

5.) The weapons still look like balls...
-I wish they'd make them look like beams
-The lasers look like orange balls
-The particle cannons look like pink staticky balls
-The neutron guns look like blue spiraly-balls
-The Anti-Matter guns look like neutron-balls
-The PTC-cannons look like BIG particle-cannons.

6.) The Anti-Matter Guns look like Neutron-Guns
-Very confusing
-The same complaint applies for the PTC-cannon (except it's that the PTC's blasts look like the particle-cannons balls)
-Can't they create a different bolt for every gun?

7.) Turret Neutron Guns
-Why not fit turret PARTICLE cannons to these bombers... they only have 2,000 extra KILOMETERS range!

8.) Flak-Cannons
-I said I don't like flak-cannons before. But I'll say it again: I don't like them
-They just put them in to simulate WW2 in space and compensate for the fact that they couldn't simulate a dozen energy guns!

9.) Waterloo
-The ship looks like a delta-winged aircraft, with the last 1/3rd of it's span swept forward, with a canard on the front of an overly-bloated nose with a conning-tower on top which makes it's bulbuous-nose look like a SUBMARINE! To make it better the bridge (not the conning-tower one) is located on top of a HUGE HILL on the delta-wing with *spires* next to the bridge-tower, and on each side of this hill are two hangar bays, with runways, AND *CENTERLINES*. Underneath this wing look like WC3-style fly-through bays.
-For 200 kps, that ship has way too many engines-- she looks like she could do 500 with those things!
-She carries 40 fighters!!! What is she a fleet-carrier?!

10.) Gilgamesh-Class
-This one's very brief, I like this vessel, but she has these two fins on top which look like aircraft-fins.

11.) Confederation-Class: She looks like an aircraft, a carrier, two runways, a Star Trek: The Next Generation's Vor'Cha class battlecruiser's bow on front, and a bunch of cannons all slapped onto each-other and painted by a color-blind buffoon. Yes, I know the colos were due to a limited pallette, but I still don't like them.
-She doesn't have fly-through landing bays (I don't like that)
-She has a mysterious caved-in area about her mid-section which we have no idea what it does.
-She has ventral fins on the mid-section yet has none on top.
-She has too little armor. 500cm front, 400cm sides is good, but she's a dreadnought, I expect something like 600cm, to 700 cm on it.

12.) The Clydesdale
-It looks like a blimp! Half-spaceship, half-blimp hybrid!

13.) The Kilrathi Capships!
-They all look the same: They have a cylindrical-like shaped hull with a bunch of wings which extend outward on a bunch of pods which look like warp-engines. Except there are no warp-engines in WC

14.) Ralatha
-She is 394.1 meters long
-She has 23 fighters-- which is absolutely INSANE for a ship that size, let alone a DESTROYER!!! Destroyers usually carry a helicopter or two modern-days, but in WC they carry a couple of fighters, maybe a squadron... but NOT TWENTY-THREE FIGHTERS!

15.) Fralthra
-She's not well designed for a cruiser
-He speed's too slow
-Her armament is too light
-Her shields and armor are WAY too heavy...
-She's more like a light-carrier designed to do battle.

16.) The names
-Fralthi becomes Fralthra
-Ralari becomes Ralatha
-Dorkir becomes Dorkathi
-Salthi becomes Sartha
-Dralthi becomes Drakhri (gimme a break)
-Jalthi becomes Jalkehi (Oi!)

17.) The sizes
-The kilrathi fighters got insanely small
-The Kilrathi are bigger than us...
-How do you wedge a 2-meter Kilrathi into a 9 meter fighter... the fighter is barely 4-times his length...
-Now take a 1.8 meter human and fit him into a fighter that's 12.4 meters... ahh, much better fit.
-Do they even think this stuff up?

18.) The Jalkehi looked really silly. It looked like a Gratha with all sorts of fang-like prongs sticking out.
-As if the regular gratha didn't look bad enough...

19.) Miscellaneous Pods?
-Are they serious?
-The Strakha's pods are listed as "Miscellaneous" Pods.

20.) Cloak Fighters
-Can't these guys just turn on a FLIR (Forward Looking Infrared)? They'd spot 'em in about 5-seconds. Fusion reactions tend to produce a lot of heat.

21.) Blair
-Blair looks 33 years old even in the 2655 scene when he's being court-martialled.
-He was actually 23...

22.) Tolwyn
-Tolwyn was 41-years old in WC1, and 42 in 2655 when Blair was being Court-Martialled
-He looked the same as he did at 52 in 2665
-He WORE A CAPE!!!

23.) Zach Colson
-How come he was playing piano in the Rec-Room after he was captured and held for TREASON!!??
-He's supposed to be held in the *BRIG*!
-How come he wasn't excecuted IMMEDIATELY upon Conviction?
-This was war... not peace time where he can be sent to Ft. Leavenworth and be put to death... He can be excecuted on the spot with no chance for appeal.

24.) The Kilrathi fighters were really unmaneuverable
-In WC1 they were increadibly maneuverable...
-How did that happen?

25.) Why does Angel get to fire the PTC?
-She's not the Captain of the ship, she's the Wing-Commander.
-She has no control over the operations of the ship and it's crew; she only has command of the flight-wing.

26.) A lot of the Confed-Stations are of the same design, yet they have different specs for length, mass, and armament.

-Concordia
 
If I didn't have a huge soft spot for making fun of incredibly stupid things, this thread would be closed *sooo* fast.

(Now, it may *look* like I'm making fun of someone for no reason -- but as this thread will show you, we've been through this incredibly inane crap before and been incredibly polite about it.

1.) The fighters look cartoony

If there's one thing I hate, it's when the ships in my cartoons look "cartoony".

-The Epee for example looked like a missile with a cockpit fused on the front, and enlarged dorsal-fins.

A *space ship*?! That looks like a *missile*?! That's just crazy!

-The Sabre looked like a modern-day Vulcan-Bomber except it got these canards which look silly... they don't even look like they belong to the rest of the machine.

-The Broadsword: Don't get me started...

Why not? I refuse to believe you could have any extra stupid waiting in reserve.

2.) The fighters are too small

Must we go through this again? Must I explain why the lengths in WC2 and WCP are right and the rest are horribly, horribly large? Please e-mail me your home address and I will *send* you a nice ruler -- as you clearly have absolutely no idea how long a foot is.

The ruler has dinosaurs on it, and when you turn it, you can see their skeletons.

(Yes, dinosaurs have skeletons in them).

3.) The hardpoints are external
-External hard-points increase radar-cross-section making it easier to detect you...
-External hard-points can be shot off! That's particularly dangerous with torpedoes which are equipped with ANTI-MATTER warheads and can go up in a terrific fireball if one of them gets hit!
-At least WC3 is smart enough to carry them internally...

How can you possibly be this stupid? WE WENT OVER THIS ALREADY. Get this into your thick, thick, thick, thick, thick skull: TECHNOLOGY IS NOT A STATIC OBJECT. Because you played Wing Commander 3 first does NOT SET WING COMMANDER 3 EARLIER IN THE TIMELINE. Hardpoint technology IMPROVED over twenty years. WHY DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THIS?

4.) Tolwyn has a cape!
-What are they thinking? This isn't the 18th Century! This is the 27th Century.

They were thinking that he was Sir Geoffrey Tolwyn.

7.) Turret Neutron Guns
-Why not fit turret PARTICLE cannons to these bombers... they only have 2,000 extra KILOMETERS range!

The guns used in the WC2 turrets are significantly different from both neutron and particle cannons -- their refire rate is significantly higher, for instance. Which would be obvious to anyone who'd EVER ACTUALLY PLAYED THE GAME.


8.) Flak-Cannons
-They just put them in to ... compensate for the fact that they couldn't simulate a dozen energy guns!

DO NOT MAKE UP FACTS. If there's one thing I could repeat over and over until you understood it (and sadly there clearly IS NOT) it would be this. You have *ABSOLUTELY ZERO* understanding of what they could or could not do. You couldn't even grasp how WC1 displays graphics.

9.) Waterloo
{Inane, ceaseless description snipped}
-For 200 kps, that ship has way too many engines-- she looks like she could do 500 with those things!

Based on *what*? It's one of the fastest capships we'd ever seen at the time -- hell, only *one* ship could even go 500 kps. How can you possibly spew this crap?

-She carries 40 fighters!!! What is she a fleet-carrier?!

How many fleet carriers carry only 40 fighters? NONE. How many other classes of cruisers carry similar amounts of fighters? SEVERAL. Stating a fact with a stupid comment afterwards does NOT MAKE AN ARGUMENT.

10.) Gilgamesh-Class
-This one's very brief, I like this vessel, but she has these two fins on top which look like aircraft-fins.

11.) Confederation-Class: She looks like an aircraft, a carrier, two runways, a Star Trek: The Next Generation's Vor'Cha class battlecruiser's bow on front, and a bunch of cannons all slapped onto each-other and painted by a color-blind buffoon. Yes, I know the colos were due to a limited pallette, but I still don't like them.

You don't begin to know that! Because it doesn't begin to be true! YOU MADE IT UP FOR NO REASON! STOP DOING THAT. The Concordia is green because they wanted it to be green.

-She doesn't have fly-through landing bays (I don't like that)

Clearly the people who developed Wing Commander 2 should have waited for Wing Commander 3 to come out first!

-She has a mysterious caved-in area about her mid-section which we have no idea what it does.

If you not understanding something makes it bad, we're all in a whole lot of trouble.

-She has ventral fins on the mid-section yet has none on top.

I have an eye on the front of my face, but none on my feet!

-She has too little armor. 500cm front, 400cm sides is good, but she's a dreadnought, I expect something like 600cm, to 700 cm on it.

Concept of linear time? Some idiot. Some idiot? Concept of linear time. 500 cm armor was the *HIGHEST* ever seen in Wing Commander at the time (1991).

12.) The Clydesdale
-It looks like a blimp! Half-spaceship, half-blimp hybrid!

A transport that looks like a large container?!?! I'll alert the obvious police!

13.) The Kilrathi Capships!
-They all look the same: They have a cylindrical-like shaped hull with a bunch of wings which extend outward on a bunch of pods which look like warp-engines. Except there are no warp-engines in WC

Ships with *engines*?! Sounds like another job for the O.P.D.

14.) Ralatha
-She is 394.1 meters long

Oh dear god! I hadn't realized this! The Ralatha being 394.1 meters long *ruins* Wing Commander 2! It should *clearly* have been 398 meters long!

-She has 23 fighters-- which is absolutely INSANE for a ship that size, let alone a DESTROYER!!! Destroyers usually carry a helicopter or two modern-days, but in WC they carry a couple of fighters, maybe a squadron... but NOT TWENTY-THREE FIGHTERS!

The fact that this is inane aside, none of these numbers even came from WC2 (have you even played WC2?) -- you're reading an updated copy of Joan's from a game that was released many years later. Wing Commander 2's manual reads "FIGHTER COMPLEMENT: LIGHT".

15.) Fralthra
-She's more like a light-carrier designed to do battle.

Which differs from EVERY OTHER CRUISER IN THE WING COMMANDER UNIVERSE *how*?

18.) The Jalkehi looked really silly. It looked like a Gratha with all sorts of fang-like prongs sticking out.
-As if the regular gratha didn't look bad enough...

As if! *twirls hair*.

19.) Miscellaneous Pods?
-Are they serious?
-The Strakha's pods are listed as "Miscellaneous" Pods.

There is a significant difference between playing Wing Commander 2 and reading part of the Kilrathi Saga manual. *Significant*. Go play WC2, find a legitimate (read: NOT STUPID) complaint and get back to us.

20.) Cloak Fighters
-Can't these guys just turn on a FLIR (Forward Looking Infrared)? They'd spot 'em in about 5-seconds. Fusion reactions tend to produce a lot of heat.

Clearly they *can't*, but I'd love to hear whatever you've made up about how the cloaking device works. (Not, of course, that WC2 even had anything to do with this... the plot of the game (yes! they made a *game* of the thing you read part of the manual for!) was that the stealth fighters only attacked when Blair was alone and couldn't prove it.

21.) Blair
-Blair looks 33 years old even in the 2655 scene when he's being court-martialled.
-He was actually 23...

22.) Tolwyn
-Tolwyn was 41-years old in WC1, and 42 in 2655 when Blair was being Court-Martialled
-He looked the same as he did at 52 in 2665

Back before they let stupid people use computers, games came on diskettes. WC2, for instance, came on nine of them -- plus three for the limited speech pack. Thus they did not do two entirely new character sets (no, it's not a static picture of a face -- it's dozens of individual graphics which create the lip movements and expressions) for two seconds of game time.


23.) Zach Colson
-How come he was playing piano in the Rec-Room after he was captured and held for TREASON!!??
-He's supposed to be held in the *BRIG*!
-How come he wasn't excecuted IMMEDIATELY upon Conviction?
-This was war... not peace time where he can be sent to Ft. Leavenworth and be put to death... He can be excecuted on the spot with no chance for appeal.

The brig set didn't appear until SO1.

Although you can legally execute someone on the battlefield (although *not* for treason... for refusing to follow orders) it will *never* happen in modern times.

25.) Why does Angel get to fire the PTC?
-She's not the Captain of the ship, she's the Wing-Commander.
-She has no control over the operations of the ship and it's crew; she only has command of the flight-wing.

She doesn't. Tolwyn orders that the gun be fired and she *objects*. That's how she enters into the equation.

26.) A lot of the Confed-Stations are of the same design, yet they have different specs for length, mass, and armament.

No, they don't. All the Confed stations in WC2 have the same specifications.
 
Originally posted by Concordia
23.) Zach Colson
-How come he was playing piano in the Rec-Room after he was captured and held for TREASON!!??
-He's supposed to be held in the *BRIG*!
-How come he wasn't excecuted IMMEDIATELY upon Conviction?
-This was war... not peace time where he can be sent to Ft. Leavenworth and be put to death... He can be excecuted on the spot with no chance for appeal.

He was only convicted after WC2. And there's this thing called due process, even at war.
 
I don't understand why people get so wrapped up over the details of all this. I mean it is science FICTION after all. I don't worry about the details, i just enjoy playing the game and the story it tells.
 
I'm usually one for loving to make stupid comments about stupid comments, but I'll see if I can't take them a little more seriously :)

1 - Sprites and 256 colors cartoony? No way! Also, when a craft is only rated to fly in space, it really doesn't have to look very aerodynamic. Plus canards on the front of an aircraft do not a flying brick make. Look at the X-29 and the Concord (there was also an experimental F-16 with canards ad a delta wing configuration).

2-Like LOAF said technological advancements are a wonderful thing. We used to use huge heavy bombers like your B-52 or the B-24, but now we use smaller descendants (F-18's, F-117's, etc). Granted doctorine has also changed to allow this reduction in size, but I would say that could also be another reason craft sizes changed from the different WC. Also, a B-52 could carry 8 X-15's under it's wings if there was no drag caused by these additions (which there isn't in space). In addition, during the Falklands engagements, fighters could carry the Exocet anti-ship missile, which is about 6 meters long, about 1/3 the size of an F-16. If a fighter by today can deal with that, I'm sure one of the future could deal with one 2/3's the size of the craft, especially with no drag.
Another argument would be the weapons quality. In WC1, energy weapons could harm a cap ship, in WC2 they could not, in WC3 they could again, in WCP they could not. Detect a pattern? One could theorize that the energy weapon
enhancements needed to attack phase sheilding drew tremendous amounts of power (ergo large generators) or had to employ some hefty support equipment to function.

3- So external hardpoints are not a good idea, all of our frontline fighters carry them now, with just a few stealth fighters having internal hardpoint. But as you have already pointed out, the craft in WC2 are small in relation to WC3 craft, there is no room for internal harpoints. I'd take a craft with 8 missiles and a slightly larger RCS than a craft with 4 missiles held internally any day.

4- So does Paladin in WC4, it might be a priviledge of rank to where whatever the hell you want. Patton wore riders pants and pearl handed revolvers one of which I know is not standard issue. Though, another reason, Tolwyn is British . . .

5- Let me see lets concentrate on storyline and gameplay, or maybe changing up the color of the balls of every energy weapon. Has anyone actually ever seen a neutron gun burst in person? Can you prove its not a blue sphere? Do you also believe that when grenades go off, they have this big firey explosion that only kills bad guys while the hero, 10 feet farther away, is not affected? I actually liked the energy balls rather than the different colored triangles of WC3.

6-see above #5

7- LOAFs expalination is a clincher for me. They fire faster than normal neutrons and since the Kilrathi and Confed both use neutron guns as their main turret weapon, something must be good about them. A turret weapon must balance the power of disuading an attack to the energy usage on a the ship.

8- I liked the flak cannons. They were little more than an annoyance in WC1 but with the Broadsword in WC2, there was more than one time that the flak cannons did me in. I can dance around laser beams, flak is a different story.

9- Ok, I didn't see anything griping about the Waterloo, other than the design, which I think is fine, it gives it a manueverable look for a capship, and the fact that it can outrun just about every capship at that point. Oh yeah, it carries as many fighters as a light carrier (ranger-class) which is why it is so valuable a capship. Fleet carriers carry about 100 fighters.

10- Okay. . . thanks for the info, I think.

11- LOAF covered this one pretty well. The fins could be for turret hardpoints for a better field of view(she has many anti-torpedo batteries we don't see in the game). The hollow point in the center is easily explained away. Why does the Midway have a hollow center? Because you don't need the space in between the 2 main bays. Same for the concordia, its that long to complete a runway. Why build more carrier than waht you need? you just use more resources and have to push more tonnage. Again the armor was thicker than anything at the time.

12- Well, lets take the most space conscious design we can ( a sphere), lets elongate it so we can carry more inside it. Lets put engines and control surfaces on it. What are we left with? A very effecient transport that woulcd proabably look a hell of alot like a Clydesdale.

13- Of course they all look the same, its called a design philosphy. Look at the ships from every WC game and tell me that the Confed and Kilrathi ships don't resemble their other bretheren. Hell, look at our navies on earth. All of the ships there look pretty much alike, it just depends on how big you want it.
As for the wings thing, this goes back to the books. With scoops open, a WC craft operates somewhat like a craft in atmosphere, where there is a 'scoop field', drag becomes an issue. Drag means maneuverability. The more wings you put on something then, the more sccops you can have, ergo the more manueverability you can have. It would cause them to be slower than their confed counterparts, but they would be a hell of alot more manuverable.

14- So, different models of your precious F-16 come in lenghts from 14.54m to 15.06m. Your point would be? As for fighters, I'm sure if Confed could find a way to stack 23 fighters on a destroyer they would. Why hamper yourself if you have the capability?

15- LOAF lol, but doesn't that pretty much describe Kilrathi designs since WC1 were a Jalthi had about as much protection as a Ralari?

16- F-15 Eagale becomes the F-15C Strike Eagle, the F-16 Falcon becomes the F/A-16 Fighting Falcon, the F/A-18 Hornet becomes the F/A-18D Super Hornet, what's your point? Fralthra could mean "Super Fralthi" in Kilrathi for all we know.

17- Well let me see, would I rather be comfortable in a 12 meter long (and substantially wide) aircraft, or inconvenienced for a couple of hours in a smaller, probably more agile, faster, lower RCS, smaller profile at which to shoot at craft? It depends on your design philosophy and mission, but I'll take door number 2 TYVM.

18- Okay . . . if you say so. Fangs and sharp points are part of the Kilrathi psych warfare

19- LOAF covered this, for all we know that could be the cloaking device.

20- LOAF has this one. The Kilrathi cloak is complete, visuale, radar, and heat. Ever fired a heat seeking missile at a Strakha? I thought the same thing, a little Star Trek VI action. Doesn't work.

21- my dad looks the same at almost 50 that he did at 40, what's your point?

22- Same as above

23- If he was executed there, we wouldn;t get to shoot him in the end (I'm about to get an amen from Philip on this one) :). Heard of last requests? condemned man stuff? Besides 2 guards and a ship full of angry Confees, I don't think the guards were there to make sure he doesn't escape.

24- Bad piloting? The kilrahti design philosophy seemed to change. As Confed ships became more maneuverable and less well armored (Epee, Ferret, Rapier) the Kilrathi kept heaping armor onto their fighters ( their heavy fighters had as much armor as our heavy bombers)

25- LOAFs got this one

26- LOAFs agina to the mike.

Alright I made it through!!!!!

C-ya
 
Exactly right ck9791 :)

But I am just going to bash on Concordia because I have some spare time..

1.) The fighters look cartoony
And so? still better then anything else at the time.. :D

2.) The fighters are too small

Size and mass stats in WC are all screwed up... but no one really cares

4.) Tolwyn has a cape! What are they thinking? This isn't the 18th Century! This is the 27th Century.

Ah yes it its 27th Century that is quite a while from now. I am always surprised to find that most think that WC is just the USAF in Space :rolleyes: No way buddies. I think in a few hundred years the dressing style will be rather different then from today and I think the cape rules. :D Plus after all he is a British Lord/Knight so let him keep his cape.

5-8)
That’s just a matter of game mechanics. Still looks better then anything else at the time. :D

9-13)
Ok just a matter of taste.

14.) Ralatha
-She is 394.1 meters long
-She has 23 fighters--
Were did you get that figure from?

15.) Fralthra
It is a light Carrier or lets call it a Battle cruiser and its not like any one knows what is standard in Kilrathi Shipbuilding in the 27. Century.

16.)
A the Confed naming system is not much better, just seems less odd

17.) See 2.)

18.) Matter of Taste

19./20.) ??? What are you talking about?
 
Here's a point which wasn't addressed, but...

Originally posted by Concordia
7.) Turret Neutron Guns
-Why not fit turret PARTICLE cannons to these bombers... they only have 2,000 extra KILOMETERS range!

Kilometers? The ranges on WC2 fighter weapons were measured in METERS. 2500 meters for a neutron gun, 4200 meters for a particle cannon? A kilometer is 1000 meters, y'know.... meaning that the neutron gun has a 2.5km radius, while the particle cannon goes out to 4.2 km.

And bluntly, Particle Cannons don't fire as fast as neutron guns do - if someone's close enough for me to have to worry about them with my rear turret... I'm not going to worry about the extra range of a particle cannon, not when I can get 5 shots off the neutron guns in the same time it takes me to loose 4 shots with the particle cannon. That extra shot may be all my gunner needs to pick off an incoming missile or foe with, and damn the energy expenditure.

Watch your facts before you argue them. :D

Originally posted by Concordia
14.) Ralatha
-She is 394.1 meters long

And your problem with this is...? It's a destroyer, and pretty big as far as WC destroyers go. Her Confederation counterpart, the Gilgamesh-class, was only 312.1 meters long.... surrendering a whole 82 meters in length, and a thousand tons of mass (which was used in the form of armor, with the Ralatha).

In WC3, we see the destroyers grow in size by almost two hundred meters on the Confederation side, and 140 meters on the Kilrathi end.

Originally posted by Concordia
-She has 23 fighters-- which is absolutely INSANE for a ship that size, let alone a DESTROYER!!! Destroyers usually carry a helicopter or two modern-days, but in WC they carry a couple of fighters, maybe a squadron... but NOT TWENTY-THREE FIGHTERS!

And who are you to talk about insane sizes with regards to fighters? As I recall, the Fralthis of WC1 carried their own small fighter complement, and they were only 150 meters longer than the Ralari. Given that the average Kilrathi fighter of the period was between 25-35 meters long... and you have to factor in some hangar space for these craft, plus maintenance bays and storage for spares.

A 400-meter long destroyer with 1000 extra tonnage, carrying somewhat smaller fighters (the Sartha is one of the smallest fighters of the period, at a bit over 8 meters long, and the average fighter length was 11 meters, with 25m being the largest recorded at the time) sounds perfectly plausible to me.

Of course, the measurements were pretty fucked up after WC2 till WCP showed up... but then again, the manual writers may have thought 'one meter = one foot', when it's more accurately 'one meter=one yard'.
 
Originally posted by Viper61
As for the wings thing, this goes back to the books. With scoops open, a WC craft operates somewhat like a craft in atmosphere, where there is a 'scoop field', drag becomes an issue. Drag means maneuverability. The more wings you put on something then, the more sccops you can have, ergo the more manueverability you can have. It would cause them to be slower than their confed counterparts, but they would be a hell of alot more manuverable.

Scoops are elipsoidal energy fields surrounding the ship... having more or less wings doesn't change that.
 
Originally posted by TC
Scoops are elipsoidal energy fields surrounding the ship... having more or less wings doesn't change that.
Oops, I meant ot add that that was all guesswork on my part, like alot of the other things I said (think I put disclaimers on all of them). I kindof stated it as fact.
I'm curious though, where is it ever said that the scoop field are ellipsodal surrounding the whole ship? This would not account for a ship being able to manuever in space using the fields, which form my readings seems to be what they do. A ellipse would just have the same effect as no field (on maneuverability anyway, it would definitely slow you down) that's why I came up with my observation.

C-ya
 
As I see it, scoops are an implementation of the Bussard ramjet principle in physics, which states that a magnetic field projected forward of a ship can collect particles into the reactor core, and then use them for fusion propulsion... As for why they would maneuver with them, I guess the idea is that space being so riddled with stray particles (another unfortunate blunder on Forstchen's part, the densest nebulas are actually less dense than the best vacuum we can create on earth), if You vary the strength of the left and right fields, for instance, You will pick up less particles on one side and thus incur less drag from that same side, pushing that side forward with respect to the other...
 
as for maturity you could compare my words to the person paying out WC2, it's a GAME designed to be taken as a game. Trying to analyze every little thing in it is stupid, it's there as it is live with it and shutup.
 
Originally posted by Darkmage
as for maturity you could compare my words to the person paying out WC2, it's a GAME designed to be taken as a game. Trying to analyze every little thing in it is stupid, it's there as it is live with it and shutup.

If you aren't going discuss things in a somewhat nice way, we won't want you around here anymore. Consider yourself warned.

If you don't like a thread, don't read it.

5) Since there are different people of different tastes and points of view, let's just say our opinions in a nice way and respect the others' reasonable opinions. Flames or other outright abusive language is not tolerated.
 
Originally posted by Concordia
23.) Zach Colson
-How come he was playing piano in the Rec-Room after he was captured and held for TREASON!!??
-He's supposed to be held in the *BRIG*!
-How come he wasn't excecuted IMMEDIATELY upon Conviction?
-This was war... not peace time where he can be sent to Ft. Leavenworth and be put to death... He can be excecuted on the spot with no chance for appeal.

HELL YEAH! Fry the bastard. And take an axe to that piano.
 
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