What have you felt when Kilrah exploded?

boringnickname

Rear Admiral
Now my question is for those who have played all the WC games (1 and 2, and maybe the addons) prior to WC3 in the 90s.

Most people weren't on the net when WC3 was released. That means no spoilers (mostly). And given how big Wing Commander 3 was compared to its predecessors, the final must have been an effin' big moment for the veterans.

So, how did you feel at the end of WC3?
 

Ijuin

Admiral
My initial feeling was thinking "daaaaaaaang!" seeing the planet explode, and some elation at finally defeating the Kilrathi for good. Much later in retrospect, however, I wonder how much of it was an imitation of Star Wars: A New Hope. Consider:
  • A gigantic planet-destroying super-gun as the ultimate weapon intended to win the war.
  • Said weapon being destroyed by enemy forces before it could fire upon its intended target due to its plans being leaked to the enemy.
  • The climax of the story involving Mark Hamill flying a deadly trench run and dogfighting his arch-nemesis, the Emperor's right-hand man, with all of his wingmen shot down, and with the fate of mankind depending on him firing a missile precisely at one tiny spot.
Seriously, whenever I replay the final mission, I imagine Paladin's voice saying "Use the Force, Blair!".
 

rapierdragon

Rear Admiral
I didn't get WC3 until good few years after it came out...

So the first time the super-gun got blown up I thought I was doing something seriously wrong, even though I had the game on easy (was more interested in story than anything else since was my first play-thru) and I reloaded a save and tried again.

And again.

And again - this time with the cheats on for infinite health and using the "instant-kill" cheat-key.

And yet again. (racking up like 2000 kills in one mission (not actual #... just IMHO felt like that))

Fianlly I went on the net and looked up hte mission and was like, "damn, you can NEVER save Behemoth?"

I had been so into the story that the old saying of "if something looks too good to be true then it probably isn't (true)" never even occured to me until that point.

I should explain - I didn't look up anything else plot-wise at that point ... didn't want to ruin the surprise. I was so worked up over the fact that I kept loosing the Behemoth that I had never given the gme a chance to play the next plot-scene. I had figured that if I hit "continue" rather than "load saved" that it would just show me the usual "earth blown up" type scene and then prompt for either "load saved" or "start new".

So I knew something was up the moment Paladin showed up and talked about a second long-range hail-mary plan. Even before they mention the Temblor or Kilrah's unstable w/quakes, I was like "well Kilrah's a highly unstable planet, lots of quakes from what I've heard, though no idea why its like that. Maybe they got some bomb that'll set its sun into nova or further distabilize the orbit or make a super-quake or something." (I've read a lot of sci-fi and have a fairly high IQ, so knew something was in the works; most likely with Blair fighting or dodging Prince Thrakhath while at it given the whole "Thrakhath killed Angel" bit right at game start ... lot like Ijuin said with the whole "Star Wars-like trench run)

So when the Temblor story appears I was like, ah, here we go, not much more now. (remembers changing disks right after Behemoth dies. Can't remember if its going from disk 2 to 3 or from 3 to 4). Mind you, at this point for me it was still my first play-thru and it was getting late at night, ON A SCHOOL NIGHT nonetheless and for me the tension was so thick, well, forget the butter-knife, you'd need a Behemoth just to put a dent in the tension.

Then you run into the whole "its not built yet, the guy who made it is missing" type thing, and Hobbes betrayal, and testing the prototype, and it being super-late at night...

So when I finally get the bomb and got to fly like the final bazillion mega-miless, I was all "Blair is never gonna survive this ... if the cat's don't get him the planet will, unless by some miracle the super-quake only renders the planet lifeless and doesn't actually make it explode, nd then maybe Blair can cloak and fly back to the hidden refueling bases to excape.

......................................... to be con't
 

rapierdragon

Rear Admiral
........................................ kilrah exploding, my feelings, part 2 ....................

So Blair just blew up Kilrah with the Temblor and has barely surived the explosion.

I was in shock. I was a fan of the cats and had never really thought the humans, who were supposed to be the good guys in all this, would really wipe out an entire planet's population.

My first feelings must have been like that of the pilot and bomber who dropped the H-bomb on Hiroshima. (late, sorry if spelling is off). Nevermind that every cat is practically groomed from birth to serve the empire and be a ruthless (though honorable) killing machine. No, the only elation I felt was that the game was finally just-about over and that I'd be able to go to bed (cause it was like 4 a.m.).

As for Kilrah, I was just numb. Maybe even a bit broken.

As Blair's survival pod was picked up, I knew he'd survive.

--- and moving into WC4 --- I totally understood why Blair had given up war and didn't see himself as a hero.
 

-danr-

Vice Admiral
I was in shock. I was a fan of the cats and had never really thought the humans, who were supposed to be the good guys in all this, would really wipe out an entire planet's population.

Kill or be killed, especially by this point - you've seen what happens to Earth if you go down the losing path. Confed knew to win the war meant a conscious decision to carry out a kind of 'necessary evil.' Don't forget, the player is lulled into thinking things aren't going badly, with the occasional clue of the doubt from the wacky Rollins. Blair is told early on in WC3 that 'things are looking up' - hence his transfer to the Victory. By the time Tolwyn arrives with the Behemoth though, we see it's all part of a bigger picture - and Tolwyn to Blair admits that the war effort is crumbling, something about the Kilrathi 'walking on the Earth' within six months. We know from the losing path it's much less.

Interestingly, the early games set the scene for this to happen. Paladin predicted the genocide quandry long before the Behemoth or the Temblor bomb. Sometime in 2654 (I can't remember if it's WC1 or SM1) -- Taggart says to Blair that the only way to defeat the Kilrathi may be mass-killing or extermination, and that do so would make the humans no better than the cats.


--- and moving into WC4 --- I totally understood why Blair had given up war and didn't see himself as a hero.

That's a fair point, he later reflects (in Prophecy) about the worst moments of his life, and Kilrah is among them. I don't think he wanted to take any heroic glory from the mission itself.
 

pigsonthewing

Rear Admiral
i was sad, not because of all the kitty hair that had just been singed, but because it was the end of the kilrathi war, which at the time it seemed that there would be no more wing commander games! it was a moment of mixed emotions, the conclusion of a helluva ride, so many sorties and a fantastic story spread across 3 games with 4 expansion packs. i loved the kilrathi as an antagonist, a ruthless and brutal race and the only way to beat em was to become like them. jmo
 

Mace

Vice Admiral
It was a glorious moment, not the way I wanted to deliver the blow, but the finale was great, and retiring.. and thinking I could now grow up.. then came WC4...
 

Red Baron

Rear Admiral
I was kind of disappointed when they introduced the Temblor bomb. I don't know what i had expected, but after the Behemoth disaster i thought the whole "destroy Kilrah" idea was dead and they would move to a more... i don't know, elaborate plan. Then came the Temblor bomb, an even more "Deus Ex Machine"-ish plot device in my opinion.
Then again, the whole last set of missions was really thrilling, and when Kilrah finally blew up, i felt a satisfaction i probably shouldn't have felt if it had been anything but a video game.
In retrospect i would have liked the game to show more details, like screaming Kilrathi on the streets or something. Not because i'm a sadist, but i think if you commit genocide on that scale, for whatever cause, you should at least be aware of all the consequences of your actions. I was more like "Yay, beat the game". But it IS a video game after all, the player is supposed to feel good after beating it.
 

RC1207

Petty Officer
My experience was very similar to RapierDragon. School night, wanting desperately to see the end of the game, yet I didn't like the final missions. Atmosphere with no gravity, sense of despair as its a suicidal mission.
There is one line that I'll never forget on those last missions is Paladin saying on the vid-com (recorded, I think) : "Send them all TA HELL"
Cheers,
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
"I had no feelings at all. Space has that effect on some people. When you look too long into emptiness, the emptiness gets inside you." - D. Karnes
 

starfox1701

Petty Officer
I remeber I felt wrong. I was raised on TOS Star Trek where the good guys just didn't do things like that. I was only just getting into things like Battle Tech and I am much older and alot wiser now. I can't say I'm happy about nuking Kilra but it had to be done. In' my PC pilot career I've killed tens of thousands of fighters , thousand of helpless freighters and small capital ships. Hundreds of mile long warships and 2 Death Stars and 1 planet. Thats a whole heep of simulated death. Look at it like this. Its like the Kobyoshi Maru test. How you will deal with death? If the First time doesn't bother just a little you might need to lay off the games and go seek some professional help.
 

Kaunisto

Rear Admiral
I didn't feel much storywise, more as and end to a gaming effort (as I's played 1/SMs/2/SOs/Priv/RF so many times before that).
I only got WC3 2000, so I'm pretty sure I had heard what happens. Nevertheless, I think the presentation sort of lacks pathos, for an ending to trilogy+Priv+5 mission disks.
It had been clear for so long in game that this would be the end (even thought Behemoth was destroyed) that it didn't sort of have the weight it should've.

Destruction of Kilrah was a logical end to the war. Nuking the capital would've been enough, but this is fine too.
 

Youngblood

Rear Admiral
If the First time doesn't bother just a little you might need to lay off the games and go seek some professional help.

Im not really sure I agree with this as you said its simulated and if you really are effected by it the professional help you need is to help you know fiction from fact.
 

starfox1701

Petty Officer
Fiction or not it is sttill a rather large ethical question and simulated or not you really should think about the ramifacations. Provoking these thoughts is in part why such fiction is created. If you ignore these things intotal then I personally feel you've missed half the point anyway. What whould you do if confronted with the situation in real life? Could you live with it?
 

Youngblood

Rear Admiral
Well If its a them or us like it is in WC3 yes I could live with it, Its either live with it or die and I perfer to live. Many people have played the part in killing tens of thousands of people during war granted not on the scale of killing a planet most of the time this was done to stop a long drawn out conflict and to save lives in the process.
As for missing the point its not something a 10 year old would ask (being that was how old I was when the game came out). Maybe im in alone in this but it didnt make me feel bad at all and im pretty sure I dont need "professional help" as it is fiction however if it was real and I dropped the bomb then yes, Im sure Blair would at least suffer from PTSD.
 

starfox1701

Petty Officer
While I know younger kids played the game heavilywhen it came out in retrospect I don't think 10 year olds were the target audience. The language and humor shoots real close to an R rating if it where a movie especially for 94. Knowing what you know about the world now would you let your 10 year old play it?
 

Dyret

Super Carrot!
In all fairness though, WC3 is a lot closer Star Wars than profound drama. No one cared about all the innocent space-nazi families that inevitably died on the death star.
 

Youngblood

Rear Admiral
While I know younger kids played the game heavilywhen it came out in retrospect I don't think 10 year olds were the target audience. The language and humor shoots real close to an R rating if it where a movie especially for 94. Knowing what you know about the world now would you let your 10 year old play it?

To be honest it didnt do me any harm at 10 playing it however 10 year olds are not as grown up as they where back in the 90s (Or is it just me?). Reading back on my past posts it may of come across that I was looking for an argument trust me this was not the case, sorry if I rubbed you up the wrong way nothing peresonal! I just get annoyed when in this day and age most people blame fiction for the worlds problems not saying you are but it just reminds me of all these do gooder parents you know the kind "my boy turned into a killer because of games" no your boy turned into a killer because you didnt teach him what was real or fiction. but I digress of topic.
 
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