What ever happened to the WC4 improvements???

Supercarriers and megacarriers are names invented by the politicians for the press for purely propaganda reasons. Its just a simple way for the top dogs to point out that the new carriers are better than the old ones without having to quote boring stats that nobody understands anyway. Real world example - American Nimitz class carriers are often referred to as supercarriers.
 
Hoo boy! I get smashed into work for 51 hours this week, and look what happens to the CZ while I'm gone! Like anyone cares anyway... <mumble mumble>

Ahem, I'd just like to ask how do we know it's the St Helens which karked it in Viral Legacy? I forgot the answer if one was given.

And I think I'll be a fence-sitter on the Eisen argument. I really can't imagine what sort of carrier the Eisen could be.
 
we see a vesuvius getting blow up in Secret ops, Eisen have vapires that are assigned to heavy carriers so the Eisen is a heavy carrier, the midway had a hard time to pass the congress so new Carries (Heavy ones) classes are not very likely to get aproval.
All evidence points to the ONLY heavy carrier class around is the vesuvius.
Of couse that if someone sees a new carrier in the game...
Time to repeat myself again... ;)
The fact that the a Vesuvius dies in Secret Ops is completely irrelevant... except to demonstrate that even in '73, the Navy wasn't as fund-starved as we've been led to believe. After all, at the time of the Crisis, we were only hearing about TWO Vesuvius-class carriers being built, and yet here's this third one out of the blue.
Yes, the Eisen is a heavy carrier. I'm not denying that :).
Yes, there was trouble getting the Midway past Senate. You try getting a vast project like that past ANY Senate, ANY time, and you'll get trouble. But two things - 1. The Midway is not just ANY heavy carrier. It required tons and tons of research, and it's waaaaaay bigger than most carriers, including the much-vaunted Vesuvius class. Of course people were opposed to it - the way they saw it, it was just another fancy toy (ref: Secret Ops fiction). 2. However, other, smaller projects obviously were getting through - eg., Murphy, Plunkett, and of course Hades. Thus, there's no reason why a smaller, but nonetheless heavy carrier class couldn't have gotten through, if only to replace the ageing Concordia class. Obviously the Navy wasn't expecting the mega-expensive Vesuvii or the non-existent Midways to fulfil all the jobs. And as we know from various books, there really weren't that many heavy CVs around at the end of the war.
What you call 'all evidence' is simply lack of evidence to the contrary. What you're saying is that the Eisen is a Vesuvius because nobody can prove otherwise - a statement which in itself is irrelevant unless all the facts are there (and they're not).

Finally, I would like to point out that at the time that we first met the Eisen, we never actually met it. Why is that? If it had been a Vesuvius, then surely they could have converted it to Vision (they did so only half a year later) in a matter of minutes, and knocked-up a 'defend-the-Eisen' mission just for the sake of the sheer neatness factor (we're obviously all very interested in seeing what the ship named after one of our favourite characters looks like). But instead of spending a few minutes converting an existing model, they chose to leave the Eisen out of the game... why? The answer, at least to me, is obvious.
And yes, I know the above paragraph is absolutely worthless as proof, because it's pure conjecture (sp.?). But it is something to think about.

[Edited by Quarto on 01-13-2001 at 12:44]
 
so what you are saying is that Confed is going to develop a new Class of Heavy Carriers while Vesuvius class are around?
The new classes of crusers and destroyes were bound to be developed because the olders ones could no longer do the job, or do you think that the destoyers in WC IV could suvive in the time of WC P? the crusers and destoyers were vital to confed since they are cheaper to make that carriers. Confed was using in the WC P a lot of starbases bound fighters to provide figther escort to cargo ships and destoyers have to been able to defend those ships in systems were there was no Starbases to provide escort. the hades class is just a new toy. it was made becase it could do the same job as a cruser and destoyer combine. I was suprise how the cerebus could subvive the SO.
Despite what you are saying the Vesuvius is the only heavy carrier around at the time of WC P, a new heavy class carrier would take too many time and money to de developed, just because we dont see the Eisen does not mean that is a new class of carrier.
 
Dragon: Where is your proof? How can you be as certain as you are acting about something that is at best congecture? answer me that.
I tend to agree with quatro, the Vesuvius class ships were too large to fufull all the functions that a carrier is needed for. Also if there were only vesuvius class ships then there would have to be something on the order of 10 of them to perform all the functions that a heavy carrier is needed and thus who would need a Midway. (I got 10 because that is how many midways are being built and thus that is how many I suspect are needed).
 
A Midway is a better ship to do peace time missions, because it work like a mobile space station, a Vesuvius dont have the type of advance equipant that the Midway have( I am talking about the marines squads, sensor systems and the like) so a midway does not need a escorts ships to do that roles, a Vesuvius just have a very large figther wing, it still needs a destoyer for advance sensors, a cuiser for the firepower and a frigate or two for the marine squads. Midway are being to be replacing carrier groups in the long run, so Confed can destivate the last wartime ships. Concordia class ships are still around but after the midways start to take their places, the Concordias are going to the scapyards.
Its call ecomonial.
also know as putting all your eggs in a basket.

Its not the more powerful ship its about the more ecomonical ship.
 
Speculating that Midway class ships are so much advanced shouldn't take place. And we don't know anything about the number of marines carried by a Vesuvius class ship.

Anyhow, why would it need a cruiser for the "firepower" during peace time? And why would it use a destroyers sensors, when it can use some of the hundreds of space craft it carriers, and why would it need any frigates for carrying marines whey they could very well be on the ship itself?

Take out a hundred of Vesuvius' fighters and their pilots, and put in some marine shuttles in the empty space. You'll still have more fighters than the Midway, along with greater speed and agility, and more marines they you'll probably need.
 
Cruiser-the Firepower is to supress the defences of pirates bases.the Cruiser shields are strong and can take that kind of beating as long that the Bombers were takend out by fighter cover.

Destroyer-Their sensors are far more advanced and have far more range that the ones on figthers and would not risked pilots lives by doing recon missions.Destroyer are also good at taking out Figthers and Bombers

Frigates-The marines are there to capture pirates bases.

I am talking about peace time. Peace time is deling with mostly pirates and kilrathi renegades. Confed try to take pirates and Kilrathi alive so they can be trial and executed.
And prevent loss of personal

What the Midway is about is taking all these jobs and doing them.It cuts personal since there is only a ship to run insted of 3 our more.

I forget a Midway have a marine battalion is on the WCP manual and vesuvius are not designed to be troopships they have marines as a security against bording partys and overall security.dont espect them to take over a ship, unless there dekker mens from WC IV(taking a cruiser,ye right)



[Edited by Dragon on 01-13-2001 at 20:58]
 
Originally posted by Dragon
Cruiser-the Firepower is to supress the defences of pirates bases.the Cruiser shields are strong and can take that kind of beating as long that the Bombers were takend out by fighter cover.
The Vesuvius could very well supress a pirate base by itself, without the need for any cruisers.

Destroyer-Their sensors are far more advanced and have far more range that the ones on figthers and would not risked pilots lives by doing recon missions.Destroyer are also good at taking out Figthers and Bombers
Not risking pilot lives? So you'd rather risk crews of entire capships? A ship like the AWACS from Prophecy would be much more usefull for a role like that than a desteroyer.

Frigates-The marines are there to capture pirates bases.
Those marines could very well be on board the Ves, and marines don't travel on frigates. They have their own ships loaded with shutles.

I am talking about peace time. Peace time is deling with mostly pirates and kilrathi renegades. Confed try to take pirates and Kilrathi alive so they can be trial and executed.
And prevent loss of personal
And during peace time, the Ves could deal with anything some puny pirates or Kilrathi warlords can throw at it.

I forget a Midway have a marine battalion is on the WCP manual and vesuvius are not designed to be troopships they have marines as a security against bording partys and overall security.
The Vesuvius isn't like the carriers from the war era. They're much larger, perhaps with more marines than other ships. You can't just assume that they have very few of them because we're never told that they have more. We're not told much about the Vesuvius class, period.
 
how do you know the Vesuvii dont have marines, just because no one tells you they do does not mean that they dont have them.
 
O.K. so WHY are building 10 Midways insted of 10 Vesuvius them?

A lot of time have past so vesuvius are not as HOT as WC IV.

Just answer my question.
 
Because Midways are cheaper, as mentioned during Prophecy and in the manual. And just because they're suposed to build ten Midways doesn't mean they will. AFAWK, there might have been plans for building 20 Vesuvius class ships. Just lilke in AS, before the war started only few of ten or so planned Concordia class carriers were made, with the hulks of the rest being abandoned.
 
see I have made my point valid.
Midway are supose to make the same job as a Carrier group but are not as espensive as a Carrier group.
Its about saving money, not having a capable force.
I am not saying that the Midway is crap but in wartime a Midway sould act as the main ship of a carrier group. in peace time however a Midway does not need escort ships since is capable of doing any job alone.

that is on the manual.
 
Originally posted by Dragon
see I have made my point valid.
Do you even have a point?:)
Midway are supose to make the same job as a Carrier group but are not as espensive as a Carrier group.
No, they're suposed to be carriers than can take care of themselves when there isn't much to threaten them, but they can't replace a small battle group.

in peace time however a Midway does not need escort ships since is capable of doing any job alone.
Neither would a Vesuvius. Notice how the St. Hellens in SO is flying by itself without any escorts.
 
No single carrier, no matter how many fighters it carries, can replace a battle group.

Earthworm: "Notice how the St. Hellens in SO is flying by itself without any escorts."
Jeez. Its wartime and Confed's still sending carriers around on their own? You'd think they'd have learned by now.
 
Well, since they couldn't count on the transports to protect her:) I would assume that Confed didn't belive there was any danger so deep within Confed space.
 
That is the St. Hellens ? I dint see the ship name
And confed had a good plan, lets put transports as Carriers escorts.
Dig up Tolwyn, hell why not.
 
I think its safe to assume that the Americans consider the Atlantic/Pacific & Indian Oceans to be safe for their carriers, but that doesn't mean the things go around without escorts.

As for Confed, after the bugs popped the wormhole in Kilrah, I'd say all space is suspect.
 
Originally posted by Penguin
I think its safe to assume that the Americans consider the Atlantic/Pacific & Indian Oceans to be safe for their carriers, but that doesn't mean the things go around without escorts.

As for Confed, after the bugs popped the wormhole in Kilrah, I'd say all space is suspect.
All things considered, the bugs were within, like one jump away from Sol.

That's like your carriers not being safe while docked in some baval base on the east coast of the US.:)
 
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