WC's best fighter and bomber of all time

Mekt-Hakkikt said:
The Dragon aside which is the most powerful all-around fighter
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This used to come up a lot years ago when people asked why Confed didn't use as powerful fighters in Prophecy. There's certainly many reasons why they wouldn't, but we'd always point out that the stock Vampire is faster, more maneuverable, has stronger guns, more missiles, more decoys and more armor compared to the Dragon. The Vamp shields are a bit weaker and there's no torpedoes or cloak, but it's not the only ship that has equal or greater stats (except for the shields).
 
Tigerhawk said:
That said, I'll bet that, in the hands of a good pilot, an Arrow, a Vampire or a Wasp would give a Dragon a good run for its money any day.
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Now that would be a good ARENA material. :D

What most forget about Dragon/Lance was its ability to use cloak as tool to drop missle locks. Id say thats great adavantage add to that fission cannons in hands of marksman pilot id say most confed/BW ships would have hard time taking Dragon down. Only problem with Excalibur that I found was its weak armor, it was agood ship before the Dragon and Vampire entered. But affter that it couldnt keep up, this from my observations from SO missions where Thunderbolts came back most of times Excaliburs didint.:(
 
Red Coat said:
And apparently, I heard the Dragons costed a fair sum of money, much more than a Vampire.
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The price involved for the Dragon is simply "fan fiction" or whatever the heck the cool kids call it today. Nowhere in any actual WC guide does it give any type of information like this.

(Though I must admit, I quoted that site once or twice before being corrected)
 
ChrisReid said:
This used to come up a lot years ago when people asked why Confed didn't use as powerful fighters in Prophecy. There's certainly many reasons why they wouldn't, but we'd always point out that the stock Vampire is faster, more maneuverable, has stronger guns, more missiles, more decoys and more armor compared to the Dragon. The Vamp shields are a bit weaker and there's no torpedoes or cloak, but it's not the only ship that has equal or greater stats (except for the shields).
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I also recall reading in a thread that cloaks weren't effective against the enemy in Prophecy.
 
I also recall reading in a thread that cloaks weren't effective against the enemy in Prophecy.
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An in-flight cutscene explaining this was recorded but was ultimately cut from Prophecy - so it isn't necessarily an official sentiment. The fact that the Nephilim *seem* to be able to shoot down cloaked Excaliburs in the ICIS manual implies that it's true (on the other hand, the one Excalibur that we *know* uses its cloak escapes... so, who knows).
 
Quarto said:
From what we know about the flashpak, it simply conducts a lot of heat into the ship's interior somehow. Possibly it somehow drills through the armour, or maybe it just works by creating so much heat that enough of it is conducted straight through the armour into the interior. In either case, having thick enough armour would presumably protect the ship. The type of material might matter too, since some things are better conductors than others.
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I think your first theory is probably more accurate. I developed my own theory of the subject based on the quotes "Something super heated the transport to the point where it flash ignited, turning the inside into an inferno..."

&

"The scarey thing is... it does it from the inside out! Sounds crazy huh?"

The theories that i have come up w/ are as follows:

#1, it isn't really a bomb, more like a cybernetic package delivering a virus directed to affect the enviornmental controls on a ship, it drills in, locks itself into the computer, and uses the ships own enviornmental systems to super heat the interior. (less likely theory)

#2. The flash pack drills into the ship and delivers a nice package of plutonium or some other unstable radioactive substance that does the same thing. (more likely).
 
Actually, neither is correct. The novel goes into a little more detail about the flashpak.

p296:

"How does it work?" Blair asked.

Pliers shruged. "The tech manual don't say. It looks like a variation of the old strip-fusion bomb. Those ignited water by stripping the hydrogen, and recombining them explosively. All these books say, though, is that the detonators are stored separately within the fighters, due to the hazard. Waldos screw them in just before launch."

Blair looked at the dish, recalling Melek's recording of the attack on his convoy, and the ships whose atmospheres had burned, destroying them from the inside out.
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Death said:
Actually, neither is correct. The novel goes into a little more detail about the flashpak.

p296:
"How does it work?" Blair asked.

Pliers shruged. "The tech manual don't say. It looks like a variation of the old strip-fusion bomb. Those ignited water by stripping the hydrogen, and recombining them explosively. All these books say, though, is that the detonators are stored separately within the fighters, due to the hazard. Waldos screw them in just before launch."

Blair looked at the dish, recalling Melek's recording of the attack on his convoy, and the ships whose atmospheres had burned, destroying them from the inside out.
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Neat...in a horrific way.
 
LeHah said:
The price involved for the Dragon is simply "fan fiction" or whatever the heck the cool kids call it today. Nowhere in any actual WC guide does it give any type of information like this.

(Though I must admit, I quoted that site once or twice before being corrected)
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Of course, but its all a bit of fun. Does add a bit of background.

Cheers,

Red Coat
 
Red Coat said:
Of course, but its all a bit of fun. Does add a bit of background.
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Agreed - so long as the person doesn't ever cite that information in any way, shape or form in a discussion or arguement. :)
 
LeHah said:
The Gladius was alright but I really favored the Banshee. It felt way too fast for a bomber of that armament and took a good pounding.

(...)
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And because of the incredible speed, I favoured the Gladius but I agree the Banshee has very powerful guns (making the Goran's even more pitiful in my eyes). But didn't the Banshee have a gun placing problem?
I just realise, I guess the Banshee is the ship I flew the least, apart from the Phantom and it sure does not deserve that.

Different style I think.

ChrisReid said:
This used to come up a lot years ago when people asked why Confed didn't use as powerful fighters in Prophecy. There's certainly many reasons why they wouldn't, but we'd always point out that the stock Vampire is faster, more maneuverable, has stronger guns, more missiles, more decoys and more armor compared to the Dragon. The Vamp shields are a bit weaker and there's no torpedoes or cloak, but it's not the only ship that has equal or greater stats (except for the shields).
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The Vampire is most impressive. But for its time, the Dragon was just perfect I think. You could do anything with ease in these ships, even if it had no fission guns or cloaking device. And the Vampire comes rougly ten years later so it would be strange if it couldn't match or beat the Dragon.

Still, since the Vampire can't take capital ships down (except a transport maybe) whereas the Dragon could, the latter one is the most powerful all-around ship.

(And the Vampire's overall protection is considerably weaker than the Dragon's, IIRC)
 
Still, since the Vampire can't take capital ships down (except a transport maybe) whereas the Dragon could, the latter one is the most powerful all-around ship.
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The F-109S Black Vampire had a Strike Loadout package which included two Enhanced Light Torpedoes.

(And the Vampire's overall protection is considerably weaker than the Dragon's, IIRC)
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The Vampire had heavier armor but weaker shields than the Lance.

Lance: 500 cm shields, 300 cm armor
F-109A, B Vampire: 290 cm shields, 320 cm armor
F-109A, B Vampire Enhanced: 340 cm shields, 320 cm armor
F-109S Black Vampire: 300 cm shields, 350 cm armor
 
And with two ELT, the Vampire can only take down a transport (alone of course).
Though it's maybe unfair to compare because during the Lance's time (sorry about the "Dragon" designation, old habits die hard) all guns could destroy a capship. But with its two torpedoes, the Lance could destroy a heavy capship like a cruiser.

And the Lance's overall protection is definately better than the Vampire's, even in its best protected variant. I also do favour heavy shield more than heavy armour.
 
Is that the actual thickness of the armor or its equivalent in durasteel?
Five meters of armor seems like quite a lot to have on a fighter.
 
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