WC4 Mod For Homeworld 2 In The Works (June 5, 2006)

czacen

Spaceman
hi Bryn, how goes the video captures? this may sound really stupid since i am the one person who has played this mod the most :D but im dying to see those videos just as much as everyone else! crazy WC fan at heart, i guess :)
 

Dyret

Super Carrot!
I haven't posted in this thread before, so I'll just start by saying that I'm glad you're okay, and i think this mod looks amazing so far.

About the flashpack thing earlier, I wonder if it would be possible to make the flashpack carrying units a special squadron... like having an additional buildable fighter squadron with flashpacks, and limiting their number to, say one or two squads at any time? I'm sorry if it has been mentioned before... I just came to think of it this morning.:)
 

BrynS

Mr Kat says...
czacen said:
hi Bryn, how goes the video captures? this may sound really stupid since i am the one person who has played this mod the most :D but im dying to see those videos just as much as everyone else! crazy WC fan at heart, i guess :)
Yeah, I'm itching to get it out there for the community too -- I hope everyone will enjoy it as much as I've enjoyed putting it together!

I've finished the Confed Gameplay Preview, just need to confirm one or two details with you, before authoring the final version and uploading -- I'll send you and Chris an e-mail shortly. If everything goes smoothly it will definately be online later today!

A little teaser shot is attached! :D

Cheers,


Bryn
 

Attachments

czacen

Spaceman
confed starbase, its currently missing its drydock/ship construction facility. that is to be added before it makes its transition to shipyard.









 

BrynS

Mr Kat says...
"Gold Leader to squadron, time to show the brass where all those R&D credits went and let's try to avoid scraping one of those tin cans -- these birds have just had a fresh coat of paint!"

"Gold Leader to Lexington CIC, laser uplink completed, commencing flyby"
 

Attachments

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
Just a passing thought - any way to edit the backgrounds in HW2?
 

BrynS

Mr Kat says...
LeHah said:
Just a passing thought - any way to edit the backgrounds in HW2?
It may be possible, but czacen will likely know for sure one way or the other.

I've attached a screenshot taken from the Karem Wreck map, which is quite a bit darker than Jadeth (used for the preview video) and filled with ship debris.

I haven't looked into whether or not additional HW2 maps are available or have been created by the HW2 community, although the standard map set that ships with the game appear quite similar, mostly with just the boundaries enlarged for increased players (4p, 6p, 8p, etc). There seems to be three main maps, the darker Karem Wreck, the brighter Jadeth and Shield and some maps with varying gas clouds. The others look to use elements of these three, scaled to the number of players.

I initially started capturing footage for the preview using Karem Wreck and while I like the map, I felt it didn't show off czacen's models and texturing as well for the first video preview, so I went with Jadeth. While I tried not to focus too much on overusing the bright, "sun at the back" type shot, it does provide a nice contrast between the other side of the map, which is darker. The three previously posted images are from the 28 second teaser that precedes the gameplay overview -- after playing around with fleet I'd assembled, I just had to use the shot of it cruising past the sun. :D

I do plan to use Karem Wreck and other maps in any future video previews. :)

Cheers,


Bryn
 

Attachments

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
BrynS said:
It may be possible, but czacen will likely know for sure one way or the other.

I've attached a screenshot taken from the Karem Wreck map...
I actually had the Karem Wreck map in mind when I was wondering if you could edit the backgrounds in HW2. Maybe make the game more WC-esque if we had a destroyed Kilrah in the background, parts of mangled Kilrathi ships floating about.

(I also had an idea about maybe putting something like Scylla or a gravity well in the center of the map - but I have no clue how that would work given that I have no idea how HW2 works with it's engine or it's physics.)
 

TonViper

Commodore
No chance for a gravity well, but it is definately possible to replace the backgrounds. The Warlords mod already have a few custom backgrounds in, and others have imported the original Homeworld backgrounds. If only I could remember how it's done, though...
 

Mjr. Whoopass

<FONT color=lightblue><B>I was going to say someth
czacen said:
ok now mjr whoopass. im afraid whatever realism tradeoffs are being made they are being made mainly due to the game engine or gameplay.

1) first of all even though till now fighter maximum speed values match wc4 values i have doubts about using them. this is because in HW2 those values make ships fly so fast that they can fly from one side of a map to the other and back in less than a minute. similary cap ships seem to move so fast that they give you the feeling you're spinning a pen on the table. on average, the higher you go with speed values causes some undesireable effects in HW2 such, as badly behaving collision boxes. collision boxes (avoidance boxes of ships) is not a fixed mesh. it is (at all times) a calcualtion of the ships speed at that moment, heading and some internal equations developed by relic. this means fast moving ships and especially large ones like concordias and the tallahassee end up going mad when they need to fly in formation or take up a position near another capship. hence all capship speed and movement values pitch and yaw are reduced by me to suit HW2.
Capships moving that fast doesn't sound very fun. It's curious that the actual statistics result in that considering the capships in the WC games seem to slowly lumber along.. although I do remember a carrier 'turning on a dime' as I tried to launch my fighter and I had to turn hard to avoid hitting the side. Slowing the capships down sounds like an excellent change.

czacen said:
2) due to the absence of shielding in the HW2 engine (even though i have faked this on fighters) capships get massacred in combat.
That sounds like the Wing Commander games. I remember thinking I was safe leaving my wingman and a capship vs. a flight of Vaktoths while I chased some corvettes, but I was sorely mistaken.
czacen said:
i made their hull strength by accurately following the ships database here. so my concordia had 6000 core strength plus 1200 shields, so i made its HP 7200. similarly made the tallahassee and destroyers matching the specs of WC4. loaded up the game, jumped to enemy proximity (enemy was confed also with only capships in their fleet *identical to me*) the capships opended fire with their dual bore lasers (doing 25 damage each bore) so thats 50 damage and dual bore AMG doing 600 damage each turret and within a few salvos the entire fight was over. this was with almost 20 ships each. it was boring and pityful. so ship health is set by me in accordance with HW2 standards. now people with HW2 mod knowledge will tell me to set weapon damage power. for example i can set capship weapons so that the same laser turret can have full damage potential against fighter craft but reduced damage potential against capships. but people will say equally that AMG turrets are made for capship slugfests. so it means that a tallahassee with ~4000 hp takes ~2400 damage from one salvo of AMG turrets on an enemy tallahassee alone. 2 salvos and and a ship you waited 5 minutes to build and spent 10000 RU on is gone. its really depressing when you play this (yes even more so than a vagyr BC firing its front cannon at your hiigarian carrier) trust me.
The bottom line is that it has to be fun.. especially to you since you're the one with the modding skill and who's dedicating the time and effort into making the game. That does seem to fit what happened in the WC games: when capships entered firing range one would be destroyed in one or two salvos. I remember that happening in the escort capships mission in WC3 and in the Ella Starbase mission from WC4 if you let the capships get close enough to your carrier. They rarely would be in firing range though, and they would generally lumber around slowly enough for fighters to intercept.

I don't think you should tweak the capships to be stronger vs. fighters though. Having the capships weaker vs. fighters (equal to the WC stats) would allow for the kinds of 'send the bombers in first' style of fighting seen in the Wing Commander games. Having capships massacre the fighters would discourage this fighter centered combat and people would be more inclined to send fighters and capships in together which was fairly uncommon in WC games and books. Perhaps making the capships cheaper and quicker to build might be a solution?

Probably you've already set the values by now since this is such a late reply and I'm confident that what you've chosen will be very fun to play. Another possible addition for the future might be the 'dynamic fighters' mod. I haven't played the mod, I've just read about it, but it adds different fighter tactics and acrobatics to the fighters. This is just my 2 cents, and I hope to play this mod in whatever style you've chosen.
 

Dundradal

Frog Blast the Vent Core!
Mjr. Whoopass said:
Capships moving that fast doesn't sound very fun. It's curious that the actual statistics result in that considering the capships in the WC games seem to slowly lumber along.. although I do remember a carrier 'turning on a dime' as I tried to launch my fighter and I had to turn hard to avoid hitting the side. Slowing the capships down sounds like an excellent change.
I think I recall that mission...IIRC it's in WC3 (although I'm not sure) and if you don't launch right away the carrier starts to turn to port. I recall being caught mid launch by the move.

That sounds like the Wing Commander games. I remember thinking I was safe leaving my wingman and a capship vs. a flight of Vaktoths while I chased some corvettes, but I was sorely mistaken.

The bottom line is that it has to be fun.. especially to you since you're the one with the modding skill and who's dedicating the time and effort into making the game. That does seem to fit what happened in the WC games: when capships entered firing range one would be destroyed in one or two salvos. I remember that happening in the escort capships mission in WC3 and in the Ella Starbase mission from WC4 if you let the capships get close enough to your carrier. They rarely would be in firing range though, and they would generally lumber around slowly enough for fighters to intercept.

I don't think you should tweak the capships to be stronger vs. fighters though. Having the capships weaker vs. fighters (equal to the WC stats) would allow for the kinds of 'send the bombers in first' style of fighting seen in the Wing Commander games. Having capships massacre the fighters would discourage this fighter centered combat and people would be more inclined to send fighters and capships in together which was fairly uncommon in WC games and books. Perhaps making the capships cheaper and quicker to build might be a solution?
Actually, in the novels smaller capships are often sent in with the fighter strikes, sometimes even heavy battlewagons. Turner's counterattack at McAuliffe, Greison's attack on the cruiser at the end of ER (and IIRC previously at Kiralh's moon), and of course BoT.
 

Bob McDob

Better Health Through Less Flavor
Dead in the water, I'm afraid. Personal issues with the team and ... well, it's a lot to go into. This is the WCIV HW mod's thread (have you guys decided on a name yet?), I think we should keep it on topic here.

czacen: Looking forward to your mod :)
 
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