WC too glossy like Star Trek?

T

Treguard

Spaceman
Do you think that Wing Commander could still look darker? (a bit like Aliens maybe). Do you think the film was too "happy"

In other words. Would you like Wing Commander do be as dark/gothic/cyber punk like Batman Returns? (not exactly obviously, but you get what I mean). See above post
 
I think people who go on about Star Trek being 'glossy' are idiots -- Star Trek is full of war, devestation, horror and so forth. It's just kind of a crowd-following-idiocy thing that's repeated far too much.

The Wing Commander movie was plenty dark (especially if you saw it in a theater, *rimshot*)... there's very little 'bright' about it.
 
hmm, Star Trek's idea of war and devastation are a bit childish to be honest. Star Trek 2 was apparently the most violent of the lot.

But, an idea:-

Perhaps a mix of:-

Phantasmagoria (where the husband does really nasty thing to his wives)
Less episodes where somebody miraculously comes up with an idea that saves the day

Actually, there was an episode of Voyager called "Living Witness" where all the crew were semi-evil.

Make the episodes rated 18 and it'd be pretty good.
Some decapitations, public executions, oh and I'd love to see a nacel fly off one of the ships.

Just a few ideas, which I'm sure will show that Star Trek is indeed quite babyish. But having siad that, some of teh storylines are quite good
 
Star Trek is silly on its own concept. How many living energy clouds and temporal phenomenom do you think actually exists out there? That said, Star Trek was never about a dark wartorn future. It is not weather it has war or horror in it, the theme and general feel is important. And the theme was about the day when problems would be gone and the world is a better place and similar garbage(or so Roddenberry says). In recent years, more than ever, it seems Star Trek has tried hard to stray away from TNG's phenomenom stories and make more action stories. And the results have come off as less than successful.

Star Trek is now just pure cheap plagiaristic drivel that copies any style thats popular at the time and will bring the ratings up a bit. Star Trek was never about overtly dark stories. Somehow if you added the suggestions you put, I do not think their would be many Trek fans left. (They will probably lay siege to Paromount and demand B&B's heads.)

At any rate, Wing is still a lot more realistic and darker in its portrayal than some -- Star Trek included. In WC people die, atleast. And when they die they stay dead. ANd their are no miraculous remodulate our shields and everything is fine situations in WC. I think making it any darker would be a mistake. WC is a "war story" set in a sci-fi environment. It should be left at that. If you want macabre, however, just play Priv2. Granted it was more weird than anything else, however.
 
hmm, Star Trek's idea of war and devastation are a bit childish to be honest. Star Trek 2 was apparently the most violent of the lot.
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Disagree... war is very serious in Star Trek. Look at any of the Cardassian stuff in TNG (Maxwell being haunted by war, Picard being captured and tortured) or any of the Klingon stuff in DS9 (the Klingons talking about how they slaughtered a bridge crew sticks in my mind... but the episode where Jake and Bashir go to the front lines certainly shows war as being very bloody and horrible...).
 
And the one were Nog loses his leg and how he deals with his life in the holodeck with Vic Fontaine
 
Hmm, well WC (originals) had a few very Star-trek/Star-warsish cheezy references... Iceman said something like the Scimitar handled like a centaurian mud pig. Come on, that's cheap Sci fi talk if you asked me. Now, the Plot of a WC is more 'military realist' than Startrek, which is 'lets go check out how cool the world is'. A WC Series on TV would be something I like way more than startrek. Hey, they've got 'Earth, above and beyond' or whatever that is a BIG tip of the hat to WC.
 
Originally posted by -<Stiletto>-
the Plot of a WC is more 'military realist' than Startrek, which is 'lets go check out how cool the world is'.
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Oh yes, specially the last 3 seassons of DS9 :rolleyes:
 
That was the thing in the wc movie. It felt a lot like a WW2 movie. which is great that way. I still love the complement of British actors in there, which makes it feel more like a ship ifyou know what I mean

btw, are there any dreadnaughts in WC?
 
Originally posted by Bhaktadil

Star Trek was never about overtly dark stories.
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That's utter crap. Take a look at the movies:

ST II , in my opinion the best, is about a man who murders the crew of a space station and a starship, is on a quest for revenge, wants to gain control of a weapon of mass destruction and was the largest warlord on Earth during the eugenics wars.

ST III is about 'The Search for Spock' but Kirk's son is brutally murdered and Kirk seeks revenge.

ST IV is humorous, but is the story involved horrible destruction on Earth

ST V is about a religious zealot

ST VI is about an assasination, wrongful conviction, conspiracy and another attempted assasination.

Generations is just stupid...

First Contact had the ship taken over by borg...

Insurrection, while not a really good movie had conspiracies in the Federation.

There are also many examples of darker stories in the various series as well.
 
Originally posted by Treguard

btw, are there any dreadnaughts in WC?
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The Confederation Class of which the TCS Concordia was a member were dreadnaughts, as was the Behemoth
 
That was the thing in the wc movie. It felt a lot like a WW2 movie. which is great that way. I still love the complement of British actors in there, which makes it feel more like a ship ifyou know what I mean
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Um, WC in general is very WW2 ish.
 
Originally posted by TC


That's utter crap. Take a look at the movies:

ST II , in my opinion the best, is about a man who murders the crew of a space station and a starship, is on a quest for revenge, wants to gain control of a weapon of mass destruction and was the largest warlord on Earth during the eugenics wars.

ST III is about 'The Search for Spock' but Kirk's son is brutally murdered and Kirk seeks revenge.

ST IV is humorous, but is the story involved horrible destruction on Earth

ST V is about a religious zealot

ST VI is about an assasination, wrongful conviction, conspiracy and another attempted assasination.

Generations is just stupid...

First Contact had the ship taken over by borg...

Insurrection, while not a really good movie had conspiracies in the Federation.

There are also many examples of darker stories in the various series as well.
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Really, you think that those stories are "overtly" dark? First of all, I did not say that Star Trek did not have dark stories, I merely said that, in general, it did not have an "overtly" dark feel. Second of all, in sci-fi just because a story is light does not mean that no wars, strife, atrocities and the like will be part of the story. All sci-fi stories, light or dark, have some of these elements.

The thing that sets a story as dark or light is not so much the actual story as the feel. Star Trek does not have a dark universe. In all of those movies, with the exception of the second one, the events felt light and almost trivial. It is not as you could feel the oppresion of the Borg in FC. It is not as if you can feel an actual urgency that people are *actually* hurt or killed. In that respect Star Trek has a very light almost trivial feel. It is not as if the dark stories of madmen or tortured souls in Star Trek carry any lead whatsover. And since people in Star Trek are frequently resurrected, death is almost trivial.

Darth Maul gets cut in half in TPM, yet that does no make the TPM a dark movie. Just becasue Star Trek deals with wars or personal problems does not make it a dark universe either. Of course, this is largely a matter of personal taste, and if you happen to be overtly sensitive, then that is a different matter.

In the realms of sci-fi, Alternaty, Origins own Bioforge, heck, even Alien or Blade Runner are more appropriate examples. However, There are some dark Star Trek stories. One that sticks in my head is the episode of TNG where alien lifeforms have tooken the head people in Starfleet (its quality is a different issue).
 
I love WC, I also love ST.

See the odd thing is, I really liked Insurrection as much as First Contact. Star Trek X is in the works, and from the sounds of it (initially) it should be good.

The Dominion War was great, I personally loved that part of DS9 because Star Trek stayed away from long, persistant wars. I agree with Loaf on the different examples of how bloody war can be on TNG and DS9. I personally loved the ending of DS9, where Sisko as the Emisary had to face Dukat who was possesed by the Pagh'Wraiths. I personally liked a religous ending of course, but was a good ending. I think the series fanale of DS9 was great.

I think both Star Trek and WC are completely off the wall with their representation of space combat :)
 
if your whount realality in sci-fi space combat tv got to b5.
about things being to realalistic even in to real world some events are jest to big or to terrible to be seen as real when there happening.
 
Originally posted by TC


The Confederation Class of which the TCS Concordia was a member were dreadnaughts, as was the Behemoth
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Not forgeting those 22 KM monsters the Kilrathi had, or the Nephilim Tiamat.

Best, Raptor
 
Originally posted by Bhaktadil
And since people in Star Trek are frequently resurrected, death is almost trivial.
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Let's see, examples of people who were permanently (as opposed to a one-episode-only cameo appearance) resurrected (not counting the people saved seconds after death by Crusher et al). Spock. That's it. I can't think of any other. Anyone?

I do agree that Blade Runner is dark, but the book upon which it is based (Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep) was much darker.
 
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