WC Game Story Arc

[Bigt028]

Ok this may have been discused, however i am replaying WC IV on my psp and am enjoying it, i have both plots saved to play if i defect right away and if i dont, just to see the added scenes.
so, my thoughts are...if you dont defect and then attack the Intrepid as ordered, Eisen offers you a second chance, if you decline again and destroy the intrepid mysteriously the Lexington goes up in a great fireball and you are thus stranded. i asume that you must defect and turn on the Lexington and destroy it to continue the game...ok, i got that

Now i downloaded the movie packs for Prophecy and have some questions..
1) Blair and Rachel dont seem to pick up where thay left off, of course we know from WC IV that they went there separate ways, but there is no talk about this...
2) i do like the back story of Hawk..however why kill him off is a mystery, i know he is upset if you dont go after the Kilrathi but instead save them..interesting video if you do attack them, confed finds out and tells you thats why they dont offer any assistance...
3) why kill off Blair..i understand that the natural course for a role playing character is to grow, get promoted, move on...we saw this at the end of WC IV...i get it but creating a new underling character to play as..casey..i just spent days, months, years of playing Wing Commander following my carreer as Blair to be pushed aside...(maybe Chirs Roberts thought there was no more room for Blair to grow..
4) Maniac..i really like this character but he seems washed up in Prophecy..becomming squad leader only to get demoted...why
5) Vagabond...did he survive to Prophecy..i thought he did..not sure

ok, sorry for the long message..just wanted to chat about it

 

[Jason_Ryock]

3) why kill off Blair..i understand that the natural course for a role playing character is to grow, get promoted, move on...we saw this at the end of WC IV...i get it but creating a new underling character to play as..casey..i just spent days, months, years of playing Wing Commander following my carreer as Blair to be pushed aside...(maybe Chirs Roberts thought there was no more room for Blair to grow..

The intention here at least was to create a new character that could help new players get more comfortable with the established universe. As a WC Player it's great for YOU to play as Blair again, but as Joe Nobody whose never played Wing Commander....Who the hell is this old fart in my fighter with me? See?

It was hoped that Casey would be the nucleus character of a new story arch that would have spread across I believe three games? But others will confirm or refute that.

 

[Farbourne]

Ok this may have been discused, however i am replaying WC IV on my psp and am enjoying it, i have both plots saved to play if i defect right away and if i dont, just to see the added scenes.
so, my thoughts are...if you dont defect and then attack the Intrepid as ordered, Eisen offers you a second chance, if you decline again and destroy the intrepid mysteriously the Lexington goes up in a great fireball and you are thus stranded. i asume that you must defect and turn on the Lexington and destroy it to continue the game...ok, i got that

I *think* (not 100% sure) if you are very observant, that if you side with Confed and destroy the Intrepid, you can see a wing of Avengers uncloak and destroy the Lexington. It's possible I just imagined this and they actually just spawned, but I could have sworn I heard the uncloaking sound and saw the uncloaking shimmer. If they just spawned, the implication is that the Border Worlds called in reinforcements that got there just too late to save the Intrepid. However, I always had the pet theory that, since I thought they uncloaked, and since the Border Worlds didn't have cloaking technology at that time but Confed did, and since we know the Black Lance used Border Worlds ships, that they (the Black Lance) actually destroys the Lexington if Blair and the Intrepid don't, in order to further incite the war and to eliminate Blair and any other "sympathizers" that may have been on the Lexington with Eisen. Just a thought.

1) Blair and Rachel dont seem to pick up where thay left off, of course we know from WC IV that they went there separate ways, but there is no talk about this...

Weren't there some omitted movies from WCIV that explained what happened to Blair's love interest from WC3? I could have sworn that something like that was in the script.

3) why kill off Blair..i understand that the natural course for a role playing character is to grow, get promoted, move on...we saw this at the end of WC IV...i get it but creating a new underling character to play as..casey..i just spent days, months, years of playing Wing Commander following my carreer as Blair to be pushed aside...(maybe Chirs Roberts thought there was no more room for Blair to grow..

Technically, we never see him die... He could rise again... Hmmm, a Nephilim-infested Blair arch-villian, in the mold of Sarah Kerrigan...

Seriously, though, I think you nailed it. After four complete games and the actor getting a little long in the tooth (didn't Casey say he must be like a million years old), and a new trilogy of games to kick off fresh, I think it was time to put Blair to rest. And having him go out on his own terms in combat rather than sending him off into retirement or just writing him out of the game seems appropriate.

5) Vagabond...did he survive to Prophecy..i thought he did..not sure

If you've played WC4 where you defect to the Border Worlds right away, you should know the answer to this question.

 

[Bigt028]

thanks, i appreciate all the feedback...i did hear about the new trilogy with you playing as Casey, however not much more..i guess Roberts moved on to direct movies.

 

[Wedge009]

Blair and Rachel don't seem to pick up where they left off, of course we know from WC IV that they went their separate ways, but there is no talk about this...

If you know from WC4 that they split up, then that is enough. The ICIS Manual for Prophecy has further mention of this break up: one from Paladin and one from Maniac.

I do like the back story of Hawk... however why kill him off is a mystery...

Presumably cost-cutting.

Spoiler

A similar thing happens with Catscratch in WC4: If you fail or decline to rescue him, he perishes, but if you do succeed in saving him... he's still no longer present in any further scenes.

...maybe Chris Roberts thought there was no more room for Blair to grow...

Chris Roberts did not play a part in developing Prophecy.

Vagabond... did he survive to Prophecy... i thought he did... not sure

Spoiler

He dies in WC4, either on the Orestes Communications Station, or off-screen in the fight against the Confederation.

Weren't there some omitted movies from WCIV that explained what happened to Blair's love interest from WC3? I could have sworn that something like that was in the script.

There may have been some mention of it in the draft script, but it was never filmed. I understand the novel states what happens between Blair and Coriolis, though I have not read it.

...didn't Casey say he must be like a million years old?

4000.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Weren't there some omitted movies from WCIV that explained what happened to Blair's love interest from WC3? I could have sworn that something like that was in the script.

You are correct, sir. This appears in the finished version of the script but it was not, by all accounts, actually filmed. The original plan was to have the first 'dialogue choice' ask whether or not you chose Rachel or Flint in Wing Commander III... and then Blair, on his farm, would view a holo-message Dear John letter from the choice.

It's a neat idea, but it probably wasn't an especially feasible one. The choice would have confused anyone who hadn't played WC3 and the scene itself would have slowed down an introduction that Chris Roberts almost certainly wanted to put on his resume looking for future film gigs. (It also would have cost a fair bit of money to bring back the two actresses for a single scene.)

 

[Madman]

There may have been some mention of it in the draft script, but it was never filmed. I understand the novel states what happens between Blair and Coriolis, though I have not read it.

Basically, it implies that he became a drunkard and she walked out on him, so presumably they've patched things up by the time blair is on the midway! If you want a full transcription of that topic from the opening of the novel I suppose I could work one up, but it's a lot of work to support what you already know

 

[Bigt028]

i have the novel and will review, but you are correct they did mention, however why bring her back for Phrophecy...just for a familure face...why not pliers again, he should be around.
also i did forget about what happened to Vagabond, interesting the psp version of WC IV...if you dont defect right away and then when you land on the intrepid, you have a cut scene with Maniac and Eisen, Blair apologizes and explains "i tried to blow you and Vagabond out of the sky..." Maniac replies..."we lost Vagabond.." he turns away and says "i will try to get over it"

I guess i am confused about Phrophecy altogether...you playing as a new character ( i described above my thoughts on that), Maniac seems lost...Rachel although nice on the eyes seems too consumed with ship maintenance...Hawk and Catscratch...
i get the idea of a common enemy that humans can pull together and fight for their existence. I also learned by reading other posts that Phrophecy was supposed to be part of a trilogy series and i guess canceled, does anyone else feel that Phrophecy feels out of place...

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Here's the 'Dear John' scene(s), from the script:

tolwyn
Do not allow lust for revenge to cloud your thinking... We mustn't forget who our friends are.

most of the senators murmur assent.
Tolwyn smiles with satisfaction...


[GAME.STY required] A- A
De Palma/Borst - Wing Commander IV - Series A - 5/25/95 (YELLOW)
tolwyn
However, we must also keep in mind that during the War, certain social and political changes were taking place along the frontiers.
(beat)
Whether or not these changes relate to these senseless acts of terrorism, remains to be seen... But see to it ... I will.

the assembly reacts positively. again, paladin bangs his gavel.

paladin
Admiral, the increase in these incidents has given rise to great tension between The Confederation and the Border Worlds. Thus, time is of the essence...

we begin to pull back to reveal this scene is playing on a NewsVid monitor...

[GAME.STY required] A-
De Palma/Borst - Wing Commander IV - Series A - 5/25/95 (YELLOW)
midgame: modest farmhouse on nephele II -a1
...but no one is watching the newsvid monitor as paladin concludes his remarks.

paladin (on monitor)
...The Assembly looks forward to the results of your investiga¬tion. We shall decide a course of action within a fortnight...

the farmhouse is a little run-down and very much a mess. obviously the home of a bachelor.

through an open door, we can see that nephele II is a desert planet. nothing more than a lot of rocks and heat out there. but there is something else: a man -- working on a patch of green ground...

midgame: ext. farm -a1
up close, we see that the man is none other than colonel CHRISTOPHER BLAIR, looking a little out of place with his feet on dry land rather than on the deck of a carrier.

the sun beats down and he sweats hard as he struggles to repair a piece of terraforming machinery. He puts down his wrench and hits some switches --

the machine begins to shake and rattle.

Blair
Come on, you old piece of--

The machine rumbles to life, then suddenly dies.

Blair renews his attack with the wrench, starts it up again... It dies again...

Blair sighs in frustration and surveys the half-acre of vegetation that surrounds him. it's hard to tell if he's proud of what he's done or sorry he ever started it...

Just as he reapplies the wrench, an incessant chiming is heard from somewhere in the house. He tries to ignore it, but ultimately gets up with a look of exasperation and enters...



midgame: int. farmhouse - sunset -a1
Blair begins searching the room, overturning books, cushions, furniture.

Finally, he finds the source: a holo-comm device.
a flashing light reads "inbox - 1 message(s) unviewed."

from Blair's reaction, we can tell this doesn't happen too often. he punches a button.

NOTE: The following branches are dependent on the outcome of Wing Commander III. IF Blair did NOT choose either woman back then, go directly to "He hits the 'play' button" below.

CONDITION: Blair chose Flint in Wing Commander III:

a faint holographic image of flint appears, apparently mid-message.

flint
...and I was born to fly. I'm sorry. Life on a farm just isn't--

Blair curses under his breath and hits a button, "fast-forwarding" the image.
CONDITION: Blair chose Rachel in Wing Commander III:

a faint holographic image of rachel appears, apparently mid-message.

rachel
...and if you think I'm gonna spend the rest of my life down on the ground -- well, I'm sorry--

Blair curses under his breath and hits a button, "fast-forwarding" the image.

blair
Damn. Thought I erased that...

he hits the "play" button and now a holographic image of major todd marshall -- known to his friends as maniac -- appears. Blair just groans.

Maniac
What's this?! Not home? Where could the great Colonel be? Out taking care of his little seedlings? Scraping dirt clods off his boots? Or maybe you're down at the feed store chewing the fat with the local yokels?

Maniac chuckles, then gets serious --

maniac
Listen. Meet me at the NepheleÿIII star port. I'll be in the canteen. We gotta talk. It's important.
(grins)
See if you can fit me into your 'busy' schedule.

the holo fritzes out and Blair's left staring at a darkened room...

 

[J "Phantom" D]

Here's the 'Dear John' scene(s), from the script:

See, I would have prefered those left in for 2 reasons:
1) It explains at least a bit of why she left
2) It gives the player a continuous experience from WC3

I always picked Flint in WC3 (no questions asked, never experienced it with picking Rachel) because she was a Brunette (more attractive to my eyes), she had the better personality and she was a pilot.

I always hated at the begining of WC4 that it forced the Rachel choice.

Thanks for that little bit of WC4 History Loaf!

 

[Farlander]

I always hated at the begining of WC4 that it forced the Rachel choice.

Did it? I don't remember WC4 (the game) making any reference to Blair's choice of woman from WC3. I always chose neither, so it fit my WC3 experience perfectly

 

[J "Phantom" D]

Did it? I don't remember WC4 (the game) making any reference to Blair's choice of woman from WC3. I always chose neither, so it fit my WC3 experience perfectly

I seem to recall some references to Rachel near the begining, but I could be mistaken, it's been quite some time since I last played it. Maybe it's from the book? But then I don't have the book.... except the excerpt that was included with the game. Is it mentioned in there perhaps?

 

[Farlander]

I seem to recall some references to Rachel near the begining, but I could be mistaken, it's been quite some time since I last played it. Maybe it's from the book? But then I don't have the book.... except the excerpt that was included with the game. Is it mentioned in there perhaps?

I think it was, yes.

 

[Wedge009]

There's no mention of either Flint or Rachel in the WC4 game.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Various people are correct. No mention of Flint or Rachel in the game itself.

Flint was killed in the WC3 novelization, though, and Rachel is mentioned several times in the WC4 book (and appears in the scene from the script above). Prophecy's manual and official guide also mention Blair and Rachel's prior relationship.

 

[Jason_Ryock]

See, I would have prefered those left in for 2 reasons:
1) It explains at least a bit of why she left
2) It gives the player a continuous experience from WC3

I always felt like the WC4 intro was to long already. First we have to establish how far Blair has fallen, then we have the bar fight, then we have to establish that Maniac hasn't changed in four games and two expansions, then we have the pirate fight, then a random station gets blown up that's somehow relevant to the story but at this point so much random unconnected things have happened you're having trouble keeping them all straight. And then you get a job offer from your Arch Nemesis for half the series.

But then you have a short campaign of missions for the Confed before you even REALLY can figure out what's going on. They really just ram this idea that there is general unrest down your throat over and over again and eventually it's like, can we get to the game now?

The first twenty minutes of the game are watching unconnected events unravel. It's like a Tom Clancy novel. (Which may actually be why I like it so much!)

All that being said, the threads DO all come together in the end, but I think I would have appreciated more flashbacks to the intro sequences so that I could be reminded that things that are happening in the present time during the game are related to things I had already seen.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

however why bring her back for Phrophecy...just for a familure face...why not pliers again, he should be around.

Rachel was said to be a 'fan favorite' at the time--which may have been true (I liked her!) or may simply mean that the fact that she was a once and future porn star got more attention in the media.

Pliers was said to have been forced out of retirement by the Union of Border Worlds for the crisis in Wing Commander IV... so by Prophecy, eight years later, he should be well settled in a condo in space Florida instead of serving with a peacetime fleet.

I always felt like the WC4 intro was to long already. First we have to establish how far Blair has fallen, then we have the bar fight, then we have to establish that Maniac hasn't changed in four games and two expansions, then we have the pirate fight, then a random station gets blown up that's somehow relevant to the story but at this point so much random unconnected things have happened you're having trouble keeping them all straight. And then you get a job offer from your Arch Nemesis for half the series.

I think the thing about Wing Commander IV's introduction is that it had to be an unparalleled masterpiece at the time. Chris Roberts very correctly understood that that would make or break reaction to the game--it had to be bigger and have more video and do more than any other game intro ever (like have a mission inside it!). The intro was going to be what sold the game to players, what got it headlines in magazines and what he used on his demo tape in Hollywood. Remember that the name of the game was to make people react "wow, this is a movie that I'm playing!"

Wing Commander IV also had to sell a lot more copies than just to people who bought WC3 to make money... which was poor planning, but it's certainly what they were shooting for. So stopping all that action to ask how you played the previous game would have been a bad idea, from a design and planning standpoint.

 

[J "Phantom" D]

Rachel was said to be a 'fan favorite' at the time--which may have been true (I liked her!) or may simply mean that the fact that she was a once and future porn star got more attention in the media.

Pliers was said to have been forced out of retirement by the Union of Border Worlds for the crisis in Wing Commander IV... so by Prophecy, eight years later, he should be well settled in a condo in space Florida instead of serving with a peacetime fleet.



I think the thing about Wing Commander IV's introduction is that it had to be an unparalleled masterpiece at the time. Chris Roberts very correctly understood that that would make or break reaction to the game--it had to be bigger and have more video and do more than any other game intro ever (like have a mission inside it!). The intro was going to be what sold the game to players, what got it headlines in magazines and what he used on his demo tape in Hollywood. Remember that the name of the game was to make people react "wow, this is a movie that I'm playing!"

Wing Commander IV also had to sell a lot more copies than just to people who bought WC3 to make money... which was poor planning, but it's certainly what they were shooting for. So stopping all that action to ask how you played the previous game would have been a bad idea, from a design and planning standpoint.

LOAF to the rescue!

Thanks for the info Loaf, my memory must have been combining all the WC aspects together (The one part of an otherwise great WC3 Novelization that I despise is that they killed off Flint and had Blair with Rachel... Grrr).

Regardless, I see your point about stopping the action, and the fact that they were marketing to a wider audience than WC3. However, a choice before the opening movie started ("Please Select One Of The Following From Your Experience In Wing Commander 3: I Picked Flint, I Picked Rachel, I Didn't Pick Either/Did Not Play Wing Commander 3").

Regardless, this is all sterile conjecture.
1) You can tailor WC3 to what choice you want
2) Since there is no mention in WC4, that choice can stay (provided you stear clear of supporting media)

 

[Bigt028]

I reread a few pages from both Novels last night, WC IV and WC III and yes Flint dies fighting Thrakhath to help protect Blair at the end of WC III, and most of Bandit LOAF's description about WC IV's beginning is in the book, the wrench, the farm, the holovideo of Rachel....thanks Bandit LOAF!

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Thanks for the info Loaf, my memory must have been combining all the WC aspects together (The one part of an otherwise great WC3 Novelization that I despise is that they killed off Flint and had Blair with Rachel... Grrr).

If it makes you feel any better, the author of the novelization never saw any footage of the game itself--so it was purely a storytelling choice rather than the ultimate decision between Jennifer MacDonald and Ginger Lynn.

I guess I would have trouble going with Flint if I were adapting Wing Commander III into a linear story, too. Unless you want to seque to a discussion of Angel's death making him reckless then his hooking up with a subordinate doesn't seem appropriate... reacting to his emotional damage by seeking comfort from the woman who's always been there to repair his fighter is about Wing Commander's speed in terms of subtext.