Tolwyn: fallen hero or villian?

$tormin

Vice Admiral
did tolwyns actions during WC4 count for more than his years of service defending humanity? is he a hero that made a VERY big mistake or someone that shouldn't have existed?
 
I would say that he is a hero for sure because he did dedicate his life to the protection of the Confederationaand all humanity he just lost it in the end but by all acounts he is a hero overall in my books
 
I personally think he's someone who was once a hero but after the war he couldn't get use to a life without it or another reson to fight, and thats what drove him to do what he did.



[Edited by -=\/\/olf=- on 07-14-2001 at 19:46]
 
The reason Tolwyn did what he did after the war was his loyalty to the Confederation.

He saw the Confederation turning from a united race into the same state before the war started, and he belived he needed to keep it ready untill they faced the next enemy.
 
I don't call that a hero cadet I call what he did during the war a hero's actions.




THE STRONG SHALL SURVIVE!!!!
 
I think he's a hero. Perhaps too much of one. He took what he beleived in and took it further. All he wanted to do was protect the Confederation. And, to him, if that meant killing innocent people, then so be it. He almost erridicated millions of Pilgrims in defense of the Confederation. Somewhere, the line between helping and hurting blurred. He figured since he protected the Confederation in that manner before, it wouldn't hurt to keep going. But he WAS responsible for the slaughtering on innocent people. Had the Project continued, he would STILL be considered a hero for disposing of the possible hurtful "subhumans". But that didn't, so he goes down as a villian. I don't consider him evil. He did what he thought was the best for the Confederation. The only problem was killing innocent people was his plan.
 
I agree his love and loyalty for the Confederation was wonderful andjust took it a little further but you can't ignore all the good he has done more good than bad.
 
Originally posted by Ladiesman^
I think he's a hero. Perhaps too much of one. He took what he beleived in and took it further. All he wanted to do was protect the Confederation. And, to him, if that meant killing innocent people, then so be it.

Replace the "Confederation" with "Germany" and "Towlyn" with "Hitler".
I agree with you that he was once a hero but after what he did he's nothing more than mass-murderer. Would you see him as a hero if you were one of those killed on Telemon just because you werent strong enough?
 
ok now he was not hitler and the confederation is not Germany. hitler was different hitler was crazy from the start Towlyn was not though he just could not adjust to lfe after war and lost his mind and felt he needed to further prepare the confederation fo the next instead of let the confederation weaken buthe just started using the wrong methods to prepar the confederation.

[Edited by Razer92 on 07-14-2001 at 20:22]
 
Originally posted by Manboy
Originally posted by Ladiesman^
I think he's a hero. Perhaps too much of one. He took what he beleived in and took it further. All he wanted to do was protect the Confederation. And, to him, if that meant killing innocent people, then so be it.

Replace the "Confederation" with "Germany" and "Towlyn" with "Hitler".
I agree with you that he was once a hero but after what he did he's nothing more than mass-murderer. Would you see him as a hero if you were one of those killed on Telemon just because you werent strong enough?

if he was dead he wouldn't have many cares about anything
 
NO. the difference between tolwyn and hitler is huge. Hitler was an idiot who had no real military ability. While Tolwyn was probably the greatest military leader of all time (imho). Hitler killed the people base don his non-scientifically based opinions of germans being the master race, while Tolwyn used science to remove the people who were actually genetically inferior. THis is still moraly wrong but one is based in actuall scientific fact based on genes the other is based on pure speculation and vanity.


I say that tolwyn is a fallen hero, he fits the classical definition. A good man with good intentions yet he had a tragic flaw, he was to fearful of what humanity did and resorted to extreme measures to solve that problem. I am sure good old bill could write a play about him
 
Hitler and Towlyn (during WW2 and WC4) are similar in some ways due to the fact that both leaders wanted the strong to survive , they both wanted a pure race.
Im not saying that Towlyn was as pure evil as Hitler was and i belive that he had good intentions but he went overboard. Theyre also similar in the way that they were both genius' , if it wasnt for a few fatal errors at the end of the war Germany might have won it.
 
Originally posted by $tormin
if he was dead he wouldn't have many cares about anything [/B]

What if you survived and someone that you cared about or loved died right in front of your eyes just because they didnt have the neccesary DNA to make them worthy of Towlyns plans?
 
Originally posted by Manboy
Originally posted by $tormin
if he was dead he wouldn't have many cares about anything

What if you survived and someone that you cared about or loved died right in front of your eyes just because they didnt have the neccesary DNA to make them worthy of Towlyns plans? [/B]

it would suck. i wasnt disputing that. infact i had a character in an SD that had that situation happen to him
 
As I said before, HITLER WAS NOT EVIL. There is no such thing as evil, though Hitler might be the closest you can get. He was simply bitter from seeing his beloved country destroyed, and sought to eliminate those he felt were responsible for its demise. Granted, he was horribly misguided and towards othe end of the war probably insane, but he displayed some real strategic genius at the outset and felt he was doing the right thing. He was a patriot and a hero in his own mind, much the same Tolwyn was.

Much of this analysis comes from the wartrime memoirs of Sir Winston Churchill. I highly advise you read them, they provide excellent insight into the minds of people.
 
Man, if I had a nickel for every time I've seen this thread topic, I could buy... well... a few large bags of chips, but the good kind, those Cape Cod chips that are like three bucks a bag.

Dire warnings I bring you all: this topic historically ends up becoming one of those threads that starts flames and gets the people involved yelled at. Not that some of you don't deserve it anyway.
 
Really? I don't remember any flames the last...three times this topic was brought up, though it did eventually devolve into rambling about Nazis...but LOAF says all topics on the web eventually turn into ones about Nazis, so there! :D

Besides, if they didn't want us talking about it, why didn't they just ban the topic?

[Edit: My bad. Sorry LOAF, I'll stop now. ^_^;;;]

[Edited by Bob McDob on 07-14-2001 at 21:32]
 
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