Tiger Claw armament

Wojo

Wojo

Rear Admiral
Yes, you read the title correctly ;)

In the confederation handbook (movie) it lists the Tiger Claw weaponry like thus:

22 Point Defence
8 Turreted Lasers
etc.
etc.

So... Point defence what? More lasers? Machine guns? Throwing axes? Or do they just throw people out to punch the enemy?
 
Point Defence is a Single Laser Cannon and not a Turret. Like in Star Wars the Star Destroyer. You see only the 8 turrets on the sides . But it has overall 60 Laser and 60 Ion Cannons. Its the same ;)
 
Hmmm. So a laser that can only fire along one axis? i.e. can't aim? What would be the point? Or are you thinking more like a gun emplacement? Kind of like the guns on WW2 german bombers:

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The novels make reference to small point defence mass drivers that hurl marble sized rounds to try and shoot down torpedoes etc.
 
One of the points the continuity stuff likes to make is that the limited number of 'large' turrets we see in the games are actually the various ships' heavy weaponry--the ship-to-ship weapons. In addition to those turrets we see, each capship also has a larger number of 'point defense' guns for defending against fighters (or torpedoes.)

Hmmm. So a laser that can only fire along one axis? i.e. can't aim? What would be the point? Or are you thinking more like a gun emplacement? Kind of like the guns on WW2 german bombers:
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More like the bomber, I guess--but imagine instead the weapons on a battleship. The antimatter guns and the laser turrets are the primary and secondary batteries... and then the point defense guns (which are lasers) are the anti-aircraft machine guns.
 
End Run has a passage about Bear commenting on how some of Tarawa's turrets are mounted into the hull instead of onto it. This limited the ability of the turret to fire directly along the hull to destroy fighters. I'll dig the quote up later...home sick today.
 
Dundradal said:
I'll dig the quote up later...home sick today.
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Feel better and get back to the flightline ASAP. Nothing worse than being scrubbed from a mission! ;)

I think LOAF's analogy sounds right to me in terms of visualizing the various armament. That helps in the other thread about the battlegroup escort requirements too - most carriers only have the point defense type weapons whereas the strike carriers and dreadnoughts might have more of the ship to ship offensive weaponry (though in reality, the general consensus was that carriers contribute more to the fight when the space inside is used to maximize the fighter wing and the defensive armament. Let other, specialized vessels serve in the ship-to-ship role.)
 
I had sort of got this kind of thing in mind, like those automated Close in weapons on ships.
 

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I notice the WC News ship database states 22 Dual-Mount Laser Turrets & 8 Dual-Mount Laser Batteries... Thats a strange distinction.

Looking at the Concordia from the movie, it has very clear ship-to-ship turrets along the midline, and what appears to be smaller anti-fighter turrets scattered around the rest of the hull. I can't see the same on the Tiger Claw. Might have to resort to freeze-framing the movie during battle sequences to see where the weapon fire comes from!

There does appear to be a couple of turrets on the topside fore & aft of the bridge, but whether these are 'Turrets' or 'Batteries' isn't clear. But it makes sense that a 'carrier' type capital ship would focus on defensive weaponry rather than ship-to-ship weaponry. Plus it has all those torpedo tubes. I also seem to recall a 'flak' like barrage in the movie, so my original thought was that the 22 point defense may have been flak or ballistic weaponry.
 
Ahh yes--figuring out the Tiger's Claw's weapons is a very good project. I went through the animated series a few years back and found I think 42 different turrets (35 dual-mount, 6 triple-mount and one single-mount.) I'll try and dig up my notes on all that...

You can see four turrets on the top in the SciPubTech cutaway (https://cdn.wcnews.com/newestshots/full/FINTigerClaw2.jpg) as well as two 'stingers' at the end of the trailing pylons.

My guess is that the '22' comes from something specific to the 3D model and that the '8' is a holdover from Claw Marks (which again is interesting because you can count far more than eight in the drawing...)
 
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Bandit LOAF said:
...the '8' is a holdover from Claw Marks (which again is interesting because you can count far more than eight in the drawing...)
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That always bothered me just because the line drawing seemed so accurate compared to other games at the time - it was a shame the number was *off* in comparison to it.

Speaking of "stingers" - I still love the cutscene where the 'Claw heads towards the Kilrathi planet guns blazing from the wings. I always imagined that the "strike carrier" designation implied orbital bombardment capabilities as well (a notion the cutscene seemed to support as well...)
 
In the film I'm certain you can see some turrets on the top as the claw raises shields and closes up the flight deck.

One question to add to the discussion, are these turrets automated? The reason I ask is automation is something that's playing a larger role in the real world every single day.
 
I imagine that none of the turrets have someone actually sitting in them where they are so exposed to enemy fighter. A good explanation may be that some turrets are automated under computer control, allowing the ship's AI to dictate their actions, while others are remotely controlled by gunners who are safely inside the ship.

On the other hand, End Run does make references to crewmen being killed when the forward Mass Driver turret is blown off the ship, so they might actually be manned. Heck, Gunnery Control on the Victory was basically a bunch of consoles behind giant windows at the very top of the ship. Might as well put up a neon "Shoot Here" sign in the window.
 
Sylvester said:
I imagine that none of the turrets have someone actually sitting in them where they are so exposed to enemy fighter. A good explanation may be that some turrets are automated under computer control, allowing the ship's AI to dictate their actions, while others are remotely controlled by gunners who are safely inside the ship.

On the other hand, End Run does make references to crewmen being killed when the forward Mass Driver turret is blown off the ship, so they might actually be manned. Heck, Gunnery Control on the Victory was basically a bunch of consoles behind giant windows at the very top of the ship. Might as well put up a neon "Shoot Here" sign in the window.
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In this day and age it seems odd for someone to be sitting in them, let alone 600 years from now. :)

However I do wonder how many are controlled by remote. I'm not entirely sure of the limitations of modern day hardware to make a guess.
 
I believe the turrets would be manned--the Wing Commander IV novel talks about how turrets with an AI instead of a human gunner aren't effective.
 
Dug up that quote from ER...

End Run said:
Jason stopped for a moment to check one of the particle cannon firing ports. The firing system and targeting unit were located inside the ship, rather than projected out on a hull nacelle. The positioning limited the ability of the gun to fire on a line flush with the hull. If a Kilrathi fighter should ever realize that, he could come in close and hug the ship, protected by the blind spot.
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So its either got Lasers, Mass drivers or particle cannons! Gah! Talk about your mixed messages!!! Think I'm going to have to watch the movie again and judge from the footage, considering many of the descriptions relate to the 'Tiger's Claw' and not the 'Tiger Claw'... which in my mind are two different vessels.
 
ELTEE said:
Speaking of "stingers" - I still love the cutscene where the 'Claw heads towards the Kilrathi planet guns blazing from the wings. I always imagined that the "strike carrier" designation implied orbital bombardment capabilities as well (a notion the cutscene seemed to support as well...)
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I love the cutscene too. It was the scene with the green Laser why I make 4 Dual Heavy Neutron Gun Batterys on my Bengal for the Enigma 2666 Mod ;)

Venice.png
 
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Heck, Gunnery Control on the Victory was basically a bunch of consoles behind giant windows at the very top of the ship. Might as well put up a neon "Shoot Here" sign in the window.
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They probably had high armoured roller shutters, you were never staring out of them during a battle, not in the tiger's claw(Bar), not on the concordia(observation deck), Wing3(Recroom and Gunnery control), or prophecy(pilot country)... The one exception in this is when Tolwyn decides to play chicken with Thrakhath in Academy....
 
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