Terminator Salvation - Spoilers eventually...

Dundradal

Frog Blast the Vent Core!
So I'm going to the midnight showing tonight. I picked up the prequel novel a few weeks back and found it to be an interesting read (it basically explains how Connor goes from being on the fringe of the resistance into the core group), although I doubt much of it will flow into the movie.

Here's hoping it's a good show...
 

QuailPilot

Spaceman
Wasn't there an Alien vs Predator vs Terminator comic book?

Anyway I hope the movie is good...I'm thinking of going to see it.
 

Dundradal

Frog Blast the Vent Core!
Unfortunately the movie was not good. The plot was basically non-existent. The movie just sort of went from explosion sequence to explosion sequence with little connecting them.

The plot consists of John trying to find Kyle Reese and protect him. Marcus Wright is a strange half-man/half-terminator model that believes he is a human being. He has more screen time than Connor, although his story isn't very compelling.

The movie borrows heavily from T2 in some cases, like the final sequence inside Skynet HQ (?) in San Francisco, I mean come on could that look anything more like the final sequence of T2? The cheesy melting then freezing of the T-101 was almost painful to watch along with Connor's reaction. Not to mention the working in of Arnold. What's the point of having that there for one short fight sequence?

The same thing goes for the first time we see Kyle. Marcus has just awoken and is confused by what is happening. He yells to a T-600 which then proceeds to open fire. Kyle appears and his first words, much like in T1, "Come with me if you want to live." A nice attempt but it falls flat.

The giant Transformer-esque Terminator is also a bit much. While at first its sequence was kind of cool, by the end it was just cheesy. Especially when it attached itself to the transport and flew away.

The capturing of humans for research as well, isn't fleshed out at all. We see them being captured, sent to San Fran, and then during a fight sequence some kind of operation being done on them. While most of us would realize it's connected to T-800 research/production, it would have been nice for them to explain it in some way.

T-600s....supposed to be the Terminators with rubber skin. Not a single one appeared in the movie with rubber skin. In fact, for some reason they all looked like hobo terminators. They all sported ripped clothes which one can guess is supposed to help them blend in? Even with their mounted chain guns, they weren't cool looking at all.

Connor's rise to command of the Resistance is also painful. The Resistance Command stations itself in a nuclear sub and Connor goes through a rather stupid sequence in order to reach them. The scene that is essentially supposed to be the major driving force in the movie falls flat. There is a signal that can turn off all the machines, they hope, and Connor of course volunteers to test it. Michael Ironside's character has a disdain for Connor that instead of working for the movie just makes it seem silly. Connor's radio broadcasts to the Resistance are also painful. He is able to convince the entire Resistance to follow his orders on one occasion despite that they have been taking orders from command essentially for years (since 2003 one would assume?).

Connor's delivery of the classic Terminator line is also blah. It felt totally wrong. Same with Connor listening to tapes from Sarah that she left for him.

Despite having a lot of potential to be really good, this movie seemingly did everything it could to be really bad. I really can't imagine Christian Bale returning to play Connor in the 2 sequels that are planned for this movie. To be honest, the future war scenes from the previous movies are significantly better than the final product here.
 

Dundradal

Frog Blast the Vent Core!
Judging by the lack of comments I'm guessing this movie didn't hit many chords with anybody...
 

frostytheplebe

Seventh Part of the Seal
Unfortunately the movie was not good. The plot was basically non-existent. The movie just sort of went from explosion sequence to explosion sequence with little connecting them.

Despite having a lot of potential to be really good, this movie seemingly did everything it could to be really bad. I really can't imagine Christian Bale returning to play Connor in the 2 sequels that are planned for this movie. To be honest, the future war scenes from the previous movies are significantly better than the final product here.

I could have told you that was going to happen! The terminator storyline has been hacked, destroyed, rebuilt, and ripped apart. Between Terminator 3 (which I hated), and the Sarah Connor Chronicles (not TOO bad actually) I sit there wondering, "WTF is going on?"

Personally, I'm not wasting $10 on seeing this one. I'll wait till it comes out on DVD. As far as I'm concerned, the terminator series should have ended with T2, and it did in my eyes.
 

Dundradal

Frog Blast the Vent Core!
Personally, I'm not wasting $10 on seeing this one. I'll wait till it comes out on DVD. As far as I'm concerned, the terminator series should have ended with T2, and it did in my eyes.

A lot of Terminator fans are waiting for the DVD as well...in some twisted hope that the director's cut (along with the "dark" original ending...which was awful) will provide for a better movie.

To be honest, I can't see doing anything to this script to make it better. T-800s coming online 10 years before they are supposed to? And what's with Marcus? One would think he's more advanced than the Arnold model, yet is a prototype?

Time-travel in this series has left it as Kirha would say "the warm leavings of a male cow." There are too many time lines to comprehend and it leaves the viewer utterly confused.

On another note, I actually enjoyed the prequel novel a lot. It has a good story and develops Connor's lowly status in the Resistance and builds it up towards the inevitable finale.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
I thought the movie was great. They clearly spent all their effort on building a /very/ immersive world rather than dealing with any sort of storytelling catch... which was pretty neat. My big concern was that they were going to try to make something more than a big action movie -- that it would try to emulate Terminator 2 and 3 and have some 'smart' twist. It didn't *at all*, which was great from where I'm sitting. (The fact of the matter is there's no *story* to speak of; we know what happens to John Connor because we've already been explicitly so-told. Unless they decided to shake things up in yet another way then the choice is telling a story-by-numbers or giving their all to making the future apocalypse *really cool*. They made the right choice... it lives and breathes.)

Time-travel in this series has left it as Kirha would say "the warm leavings of a male cow." There are too many time lines to comprehend and it leaves the viewer utterly confused.

I don't know - this is stupid when Star Trek fans say it... and their franchise isn't entirely derived from a time travel story whose whole point was to leave the viewer 'confused' about the timeline.

On another note, I actually enjoyed the prequel novel a lot. It has a good story and develops Connor's lowly status in the Resistance and builds it up towards the inevitable finale.

You are onto something here. Absolutely the *best* thing about Terminator 4 was the scope of the "prequel" tie-in material. They managed to release - with the movie - two video games, a novel, a series of comic books, two series' of short videos (which connect to an ARG?) and a six-episode CGI TV show that all tell *different* stories in the movie's world.

I could have told you that was going to happen! The terminator storyline has been hacked, destroyed, rebuilt, and ripped apart. Between Terminator 3 (which I hated), and the Sarah Connor Chronicles (not TOO bad actually) I sit there wondering, "WTF is going on?"

Personally, I'm not wasting $10 on seeing this one. I'll wait till it comes out on DVD. As far as I'm concerned, the terminator series should have ended with T2, and it did in my eyes.

Okay, double-anger.

* WHO ARE YOU PEOPLE? ARGH ARGH GNAW GRABPTHTHTHT. Do you guys really believe that 'I'm saving my COMPLETELY INSIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF MONEY' is some kind of positive status beacon that everyone lauds every time we hear it (and we hear it *constantly*)? Do you really think the brain-response to this is somehow golly, what a clever and sagacious individual, he's come up with a brilliant solution for avoiding blah blah blarhhasgasahgash HARHHGHGHGHGHG It's a damn fast food meal, go spend it on a movie and have fun for two hours/get the right to criticize it with impunity... or don't. But nobody thinks the 'I'm too good for this but I'm still here' comment is neat. You're all losers. Horrible, horrible losers. RARGH.

* 'In my eyes'. RARGRHG RARRRRGHGHGHGHGHAHSHGSHI AM JUST GOING TO TYPE LOTS OF GS BECAUSE THIS IS STUPID GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG.

(I like Terminator 3 because it's completely unapologetic. It's *exactly* Terminator 2 told in exactly the same way but with the opposite message. I love seeing movies do that (2010 is the best example ever). All those 'rawr, mindless action, so dumb' people need to get off the world. But I digress. I also think TSCC was just about the smartest show on TV last season... and my biggest criticism of T4 would have to be that it wasn't those characters.)
 

Dundradal

Frog Blast the Vent Core!
I thought the movie was great. They clearly spent all their effort on building a /very/ immersive world rather than dealing with any sort of storytelling catch... which was pretty neat. My big concern was that they were going to try to make something more than a big action movie -- that it would try to emulate Terminator 2 and 3 and have some 'smart' twist. It didn't *at all*, which was great from where I'm sitting. (The fact of the matter is there's no *story* to speak of; we know what happens to John Connor because we've already been explicitly so-told. Unless they decided to shake things up in yet another way then the choice is telling a story-by-numbers or giving their all to making the future apocalypse *really cool*. They made the right choice... it lives and breathes.)

I'm not sure if I felt as immersed in the world as you. If anything I felt detached from it because at times it was trying a bit too hard. Like the ending...they tried a little too hard with that in relation to Marcus and John. You can see where they were trying to go with it...but it fell flat. However, that is not to say the entire movie was a giant steaming pile of crap...it certainly has a few sequences that are great the problem is there linked together by some stuff that isn't the greatest. One thing that I found odd was what was with the fade-to-black in the first portion of the movie? I forget it's exact location in the film but it was near the beginning and felt extremely out of place and odd to me.



I don't know - this is stupid when Star Trek fans say it... and their franchise isn't entirely derived from a time travel story whose whole point was to leave the viewer 'confused' about the timeline.

What's confusing is the appearance of Marcus. Is he from the future? As you do notice the signature lightning of Terminator time travel when he first appears after the explosion. Or was he inside the Skynet facility? Can we explain Skynet's advanced position in 2018 because of its own time travel exploits a few years later?

The same goes for Skynet's knowledge of Kyle Reese, how does it have anyway of knowing he will be/is John's father? And what's with ID'ing him 17 times and never just killing him? If he's dead there's no need for an elaborate ruse to get John into Skynet Central. Is Skynet updating itself through time travel in order to beat Connor? Did the T-X in T3 provide the young Skynet with information that would be useful? It becomes a big mess.

You are onto something here. Absolutely the *best* thing about Terminator 4 was the scope of the "prequel" tie-in material. They managed to release - with the movie - two video games, a novel, a series of comic books, two series' of short videos (which connect to an ARG?) and a six-episode CGI TV show that all tell *different* stories in the movie's world.

Yeah the prequel novel is pretty good and I found it useful when I went to see the movie as I felt I already "knew" some of the characters. Although, I disliked that Barnes is really played up in the novel, but has very limited role in the movie (although I found it interesting that he is apparently "in the loop" when it comes to Connor's knowledge of his own future)

The T-600s are really great in the novel but onscreen they fell flat. They really did look like hobo-terminators.
 

Shaggy

Vice Admiral
I just caught the movie today and had a hell of a good time. I thought it was better than T3, but then again T3's inherent tongue in cheek approach changed it's tone more toward the self parody, but I enjoyed T3 as well, just for different reasons.

T4, while not as deep or philosophical as 1 & 2, did have a nice dead serious tone that didn't try to parody the old lines and actions.

The only real problems I had with the movie:

(A)
When Skynet launched its attack in T3, and according to T2, the Russians would launch a counter attack. Now throwing aside reality, the exchange of the US's nuclear arsenal alone would be enough to kill everybody through blast, fire, fallout, and nuclear winter. There is the tactical logic that, if the Russians retaliate -as evidenced in the end of T3, then many of their warheads would be targeted at the US military's bases and infrastructure.
So the resistance shouldn't be flying A-10s, Ospreys, and Blackhawk helicopters because the airbases housing them would have been destroyed. And operating such units is a big operation so why didn't Skynet know where to look for the Resistance's air power?
but that's all an assumption that can easily melt into the picture if you let it.

(B)
Apparently, being a cyborg(or murderer) makes you a universal heart donor.
once again see assumption A.

I would have liked to have heard more about what Marcus did to
put him on death row.
It might be covered in the novelization, I don't know because I haven't read it, but it would have made for a good piece of character development in the film.

And for those who think the movie is terrible remember, there is no movie so bad that it can't be fixed with a good Riff.*



* With the possible exception of the original Gone In Sixty Seconds. Everytime I think of that pile of excrement I feel like I must smash the images out of my head with a sledgehammer.:mad:
 

Mace

Vice Admiral
It was hard to actually see a story through it, and that was pretty bothersome.

There was simply too much action, and lacked the depth of the characters that were done in terminator 2 and 3(and a bit of humor). And again there is an open ending, in three years we'll see a terminator 5?
 

TCS-Concordia

Rear Admiral
My one single issue

Why does there always have to be random pieces of burning trash in the future? Seriously, in what is supposed to be a nearly dead city there are random things burning in the street. Is there a pyro fairy floating around? I got the fact that LA went poof, and I think the viewer does too.

Anyway, that the one silly peeve I had about this and all post apocalyptic movies.
 

Shipgate

Rear Admiral
Why does there always have to be random pieces of burning trash in the future? Seriously, in what is supposed to be a nearly dead city there are random things burning in the street. Is there a pyro fairy floating around? I got the fact that LA went poof, and I think the viewer does too.

Anyway, that the one silly peeve I had about this and all post apocalyptic movies.
It's simply a cheap way to suggest post-apocalyptic environments. The trash doesn't even need to be burning. It can just be drifting along.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Terminator 1 & 2, "deep and philosophical"? What were you guys smoking back then?

Certainly there's nothing deep or philosophical about the original Terminator; it's an Outer Limits episode writ large -- the whole point is that you enjoy wrapping your brain around the twist at the end. No message.

... but I'd be more generous in the case of T2. No one is going to put James Cameron on a list of the world's great thinkers*, but it was pretty cool when we were twelve years old and seeing an action movie that had a greater message we could appreciate (however obvious in retrospect). It's one of those greater pieces of pop culture that helped start a lot of us thinking on a certain level.

* - Well, maybe they will... our current literary canons are largely based on popularity.

Why does there always have to be random pieces of burning trash in the future?

Maybe it has less to do with the future and more to do with the movie being set in LA. :)

And again there is an open ending, in three years we'll see a terminator 5?

Box office receipts say... maybe not. (Seriously, though, it's not *really* an open ending... because we're directly told what happens in the original movie.)

Yeah the prequel novel is pretty good and I found it useful when I went to see the movie as I felt I already "knew" some of the characters. Although, I disliked that Barnes is really played up in the novel, but has very limited role in the movie (although I found it interesting that he is apparently "in the loop" when it comes to Connor's knowledge of his own future)

Barnes has a bigger role in the game, too... and the 'rubber skin' Terminators you mentioned earlier show up in all the merchandising... I think the internet is right about a significant amount of material being cut from the final film. (And you can certainly tell where the topless bit was spliced out; it immediately stops raining in the middle of a scene.)
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
... but I'd be more generous in the case of T2. No one is going to put James Cameron on a list of the world's great thinkers*, but it was pretty cool when we were twelve years old and seeing an action movie that had a greater message we could appreciate

I think the biggest strength and greatest weakness of Terminator 2 is that so much of it is obvious script re-dos from the first movie, with a better coat of gloss. And while Terminator 2 does everything better, there is something visceral lost in that high-budget slickness.
 

Dundradal

Frog Blast the Vent Core!
Barnes has a bigger role in the game, too... and the 'rubber skin' Terminators you mentioned earlier show up in all the merchandising... I think the internet is right about a significant amount of material being cut from the final film. (And you can certainly tell where the topless bit was spliced out; it immediately stops raining in the middle of a scene.)

Yeah some of the scene editing was pretty poor. Like I mentioned before, the fade-to-black near the start of the film. I just found it odd to build up both the T-600 and T-700s before the movie only to have the T-600 show up in such an odd form without the skin and completely cut the T-700. Granted, it's not that big a deal, but they went through a lot of promotion about both of those points but then completely altered them in the final version.

One thing that did just pop into my mind
Thinking back about the G'n'R scene where Connor uses the CD to lure the termibike to him, I remembered that the CD is actually given to him during the prequel novel as a gift from another fighter. Which in the prequel I actually thought was a very nice scene relating back to the old films.

Has anyone checked out the novelization yet? I'd be curious to see how much more it fleshes out any of the sequences...especially the one between Marcus and Skynet.
 
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