Squadron Makeup

Edfilho said:
LOAF, you're right, 30 is a lot for a ship as big as the Cerberus, BUT it should be able to carry a few more (total 40-45) to fit the concept.
I don't think ships are generally built on the basis of what they "should" have - usually, it's more a case of what they can have. The Cerberus doesn't have 30 fighters because somebody decided that 30 fighters should be enough for anyone - it has 30 fighters because somebody decided that <some other thing> which would have had to be removed to make space for more fighters was too important to be removed.
 
Quarto said:
I don't think ships are generally built on the basis of what they "should" have - usually, it's more a case of what they can have.

Humm, can't argue here. Makes a lot of sense.
 
well actually your both right when a goverment wants a new craft be it fighter or ship they go to contractors with a list of things they want it to have for example size power, and missions they would like it to preform thats the "what we would like" list then the contractor comes up with a desgin that closet fills that list some time sacrifincing one requirment for the other. this is the "what you can have list". the goverment then picks the design that fills the requirements the best and builds it.
For all we know they concept of the Hades class could have called for 40-50 fighters and the designers said 30 is all your getting if you want all the guns. its always something of a comprimise with ship building. if you want a good expample of how this contest works look up the recent bidding and concepts for the new F-35 Joint strike fighter the military came up with a massive "what we want list" and lockheed came closet to that list over boeing so they got the contact.
 
Wanting a cruiser to have as many fighters as a carrier is like wanting your sports car to hold as much cargo as a big rig truck.
 
your looking for logic form military R&D?

But if you think about it the midway we developed to be a stand alone carrier no escorts needed . Why wouldn't the newiest cruiser of that era be a cruiser that could fight somewhat like a carrier as well? think of it as a new cost cutting measure if your crusier can funtion as pocket carriers you need less carriers. the Hades even gives you more versitlity. Once again please remember the Hades class was not a small ship its 777 meters long. Bigger then bengal class carriers and almost as big as Concordia class fleet carriers
 
Guardian said:
your looking for logic form military R&D?

But if you think about it the midway we developed to be a stand alone carrier no escorts needed . Why wouldn't the newiest cruiser of that era be a cruiser that could fight somewhat like a carrier as well? think of it as a new cost cutting measure if your crusier can funtion as pocket carriers you need less carriers. the Hades even gives you more versitlity. Once again please remember the Hades class was not a small ship its 777 meters long. Bigger then bengal class carriers and almost as big as Concordia class fleet carriers

No, we're looking for deployable ideas from military R&D, ones that won't get voted down as not being cost-effective by the latest study.

And the Midway was a special case - she was designed to replace a good part of a carrier task force, by centralizing the functions of several Marine transports, two or three wartime-era carriers, and a science vessel in one hull. If you look the Murphy-class Destroyers or Plunkett-class cruisers, you'll see that they've retained their specialist roles. The REASON that the Midway exists was because running a lot of carriers was expensive, yet they didn't want to give up the extra mobile striking power a carrier brought with it... so they compromised by making a really big carrier in the Midway to replace most of the Concordia-class and older carriers, with the idea that one hull and several thousand crew on it was easier and cheaper to plan for logistically than a three smaller ships with similarly large crews and having three hulls to pay upkeep on and the extra crew required to keep all three staffed at optimal levels, amongst other things.

Having more carrier-capable cruisers increases your expenses - it means you either sacrifice capability for a not-so-capable carrier or a very-expensive-and-not-too-capable cruiser. You've either given up armor, weapons, or speed to support the extra mass and crew required to keep a number of fighters active... or else you've got like two to four fighters crammed into the only free space on the ship, which means they're useful to scout ahead... but nothing else.

Note that the Hades-class Cerberus was fairly large as far as cruisers went, but that most of that space seemed to be devoted to engines and guns, at least to judge by how little space we saw in her hangar bays. The Plunkett-class cruisers are 1200m long, which is longer than a Confederation-class dreadnought... and they're still cruisers, because they're designed to kill capships. Mission defines requirements and equipment, which is something that needs to be figured into the design of a craft.

Being honest? Having fewer fighters spread out across more ships is a liability for logistics and the Fleet, since it means that you either need more escorts for a given task force or else you sacrifice firepower and strike capability... especially seeing that most carriers of the Kilrathi War era couldn't carry the really heavy fighters, and only the Ceberus seemed the exception to that rule. And she didn't have enough fighters or bombers to handle a full-fledged fleet action; remember, she's designed for raiding, not stand-up fleet battles.
 
Guardian said:
But if you think about it the midway we developed to be a stand alone carrier no escorts needed . Why wouldn't the newiest cruiser of that era be a cruiser that could fight somewhat like a carrier as well? think of it as a new cost cutting measure if your crusier can funtion as pocket carriers you need less carriers. the Hades even gives you more versitlity. Once again please remember the Hades class was not a small ship its 777 meters long. Bigger then bengal class carriers and almost as big as Concordia class fleet carriers
Think about it, what would be the point of turning the Hades cruisers into carriers? Clearly, Confed already has carriers, and their goal in designing the Hades cruiser was obviously not the development of another carrier. Note that we know Confed has escort carriers in the WCP era - so they don't need the Hades class to fill that niche, either :).

Secondly, consider your statement about the Hades' length from a different point of view. It's got 30 fighters, and it's 777 metres long. Yeah, that's pretty damn big. So why only 30 fighters? There's got to be space for more, right? Wrong - the ship is exactly as long as it needs to be. There is no empty space inside that could be filled with additional ships and such. If the ship is 777 metres long, and has only 30 fighters, clearly the ship's large hull is needed for other purposes.

Try to have a little more imagination. Military ships in WC carry more than just guns and fighters. Maybe the Hades' size stems from the fact that it's carrying one of those comm intercept systems that were seen in Fleet Action. Maybe it stems from the fact that it's carrying independent food production facilities, mining and production equipment, or all of the above - like the Lexington in Armada. Maybe it just needs a lot of space for fuel and supplies. It could be all of these things - or none of them. Who knows? What we do know, however, is that the ship is 777 metres long, and in spite of its size, only has room for 30 fighters, so they've presumably got another use for all that space.
 
Midway class ships only operate alone during peacetime. In times of war, they're supposed to form the center of a battlegroup.
 
Well, those are my points, the hades has many more fighters than regular cruisers, but it has too few to do anything more than fighter cover and a little raiding. It's amazing how much the 8 pilots it had in WCSO did by themselves.
 
The point of turning the Hades class into a pocket carrier is it belongs to special ops not the main fleet so you want it to be as versitle and capable as it has to be. People notice when massive fleet carriers even escort carriers leave the fleet for detached dutied a crusier would have a better chance of not being noticed. So thats its niche special ops command as oppsed to fleet command.

My point about the ships size is not that the fighter compliment was to small its just about right earlier in this tread several people suggested the Hades class could not support 30 fighters. I am simply stating that i thinik it could without breaking any wc universe rules.
 
Are you sure? IIRC, they use "cruiser" instead of "carrier" in that sentence, somewhere in the game.
 
FrostyNSO said:
The back of the Prophecy:Gold box refers to the Cerberus as "Confed's first 'Quick-Strike' Carrier."
The game calls it a cruiser, and the game is a far more official source than the back of the box :p.
 
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