Squadron Makeup

FrostyNSO

Spaceman
Anybody know how many fighters and pilots make up a Confed fighter squadron. I am thinking 12 ships to 16 pilots or 16 to 16 for some reason.
 

Haesslich

Spaceman
Depends on the era and where the 'squadron' is based. WC3 had ten fighters per squadron, while WC4 reverted it to the pre-Kilrathi-war complement of 16. A 'half-squadron' off the destroyer Coventry in WC3 had 6 fighters, IIRC.
 

Death

gh0d (Administrator)
It actually varies depending on what timeperiod you're talking about. It's been anywhere from 10 ships (WC3) to 16 (WC4), not to mention whatever the breakdown for the WCP era, which I'm too tired to recall at the moment. :p
 

iCe

Vice Admiral
the midway has a complement of 252... and has 3 squadrons in the end of the game. if you dived that by 3...

or are the marine landing crafts, shuttle's etc also counted in that number???
 

Iceman16

Vice Admiral
For the WCP era its probably a 1:1 pilot to ship ratio so just count up how many pilots there are in WCP.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
what about the wc1-2 era, is there any information on squadrons during that era?

While we tend to group them together because of their similar engines, Wing Commander and Wing Commander II are actually the two consecutive games furthest apart in the timeline (with the exception of Privateer/Privateer 2).

Squadrons in 2654 (the original Wing Commander) were made up of sixteen fighters (per 'Pilgrim Truth'). In Wing Commander 2 (2665-2667) that number was *probably* fifteen fighters -- and that number comes from the size of the TCS Tarawa's squadrons in End Run.

the midway has a complement of 252... and has 3 squadrons in the end of the game. if you dived that by 3...

Wing Commander Prophecy (incorrectly) inverted the word 'wing' and 'squadron' in its FMV segments. The Midway's fighter complement consists of three fighter wings with eighty four fighters each. These wings are made up of several smaller squadrons, which probably consist of between twelve and sixteen fighters each.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
Wing Commander Prophecy (incorrectly) inverted the word 'wing' and 'squadron' in its FMV segments. The Midway's fighter complement consists of three fighter wings with eighty four fighters each. These wings are made up of several smaller squadrons, which probably consist of between twelve and sixteen fighters each.

Wait a minute didn't Blair say in the beginning of the game that the Midway didn't have a full complement of ships?
 

Haesslich

Spaceman
All That Remains said:
Wait a minute didn't Blair say in the beginning of the game that the Midway didn't have a full complement of ships?

That's why we met the Eisen by G'mar, IIRC, since they were transferring Wolf Pack 'squadron' to the Midway in mission 1.
 

Edfilho

Cry some more!
So actually, Maniac was the Wing Commander of the Black Widow "wing", and Drake was the Boss of the 3 wing commanders
 

FrostyNSO

Spaceman
Man, at 16 fighters, the Midway would have something like 15 squadrons. Maybe for a larger carrier they would have larger squadrons.

Also, I am pretty sure a wing is usually referenced as the carrier's entire compliment.

I know the navy usually has about 1.5 pilots to each plane...I wonder what confed uses?
 

Manic

Rear Admiral
I wonder what they do with the other half of the second pilot...
-edited to add something relevant-
If they do use the old naval practices for squadron/wing designations(although there's no reason they shouldn't, a lot can change over that length of time), the Midway would have a fairly large amount of squadrons... we only hear of three squadrons doing all the work, however. Confusing. I mean, I could see Marshall being stuck in charge of 15 pilots, on merit of experience alone, but 84 pilots? You may as well load those pilots into cap-missles, because they'd all be dead. (although, we do see Maniac finally starting to become a responsible leader in WCP...)
Not to mention we see no other squadrons, and about 45 pilots total... where are the other pilots/ships? Are there just extra fighters kept in repair/storage until needed for a particular mission? (which would make a bit of sense, but I doubt they'd have 250+ fighters for 45 pilots.) If the extra pilots existed, why the heck don't we see them on Midway scrambles? (generally, I'd think a scramble in emergency would spew forth as many fighters as possible.) They'd need specialized pilots for specialized jobs. Bomber pilots don't often fly fighters, they are trained just to go in, bomb, and get out. Fighter pilots aren't really taught the complexity of a bomber. (then again, it could be explained away by saying that the coming years would have simpler fighters, ones even a trained chimp could fly... we are talking about space here. Falling out of the sky because you're used to a F16 and flying a C130 wouldn't be an issue really.)
Although, flying bombing and fighter missions was fun, I'd seriously doubt they'd transfer a specialized pilot around from ship-type to ship-type (not like Rapier to Sabre, I mean Rapier to Broadsword(takes a whole other style of flying to survive in one of those babies)"You did so good as a interceptor pilot, we're going to stuff you into a large hulking mass with explosives strapped to it and no manouverability! Congratulations!"
For gameplay's sake I'm glad they went that way, but it wasn't really sensible to bounce Blair back and forth between fighters and bombers and back to fighters... He was good at both, true, but who is to say that Casey was? Unusual... :(
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
So actually, Maniac was the Wing Commander of the Black Widow "wing", and Drake was the Boss of the 3 wing commanders

Right -- which is why it was important to him... he'd never been a (Confed?) Wing Commander before, while he'd commanded numerous squadrons (Wild Eagles, Gold, etc.).

Man, at 16 fighters, the Midway would have something like 15 squadrons. Maybe for a larger carrier they would have larger squadrons.

Fifteen squadrons sounds just about right.

Also, I am pretty sure a wing is usually referenced as the carrier's entire compliment.

Sort of. In an ordinary carrier the complement is usually one fighter wing... but on the larger heavy carriers (Midway and Vesuvius-class) there are multiple wings (three and four, respectively). They're organizationally separate and coordinated by Cmdr. Drake (the CAG).



If they do use the old naval practices for squadron/wing designations(although there's no reason they shouldn't, a lot can change over that length of time), the Midway would have a fairly large amount of squadrons... we only hear of three squadrons doing all the work, however. Confusing. I mean, I could see Marshall being stuck in charge of 15 pilots, on merit of experience alone, but 84 pilots? You may as well load those pilots into cap-missles, because they'd all be dead. (although, we do see Maniac finally starting to become a responsible leader in WCP...)

The wing/squadron inversion for Prophecy is an acknowledged error -- the manual makes clear that the places on the Midway that we're assigned should have been three fighter *wings*.

Maniac had already commanded squadrons, likt the Wild Eagles in Secret Ops 2... so the idea that he'd be in command of one again isn't particularly special. In all likelyhood Maniac started out the game as a squadron CO -- and then he was made a Wing Commander later on.

Not to mention we see no other squadrons, and about 45 pilots total... where are the other pilots/ships? Are there just extra fighters kept in repair/storage until needed for a particular mission? (which would make a bit of sense, but I doubt they'd have 250+ fighters for 45 pilots.) If the extra pilots existed, why the heck don't we see them on Midway scrambles? (generally, I'd think a scramble in emergency would spew forth as many fighters as possible.) They'd need specialized pilots for specialized jobs. Bomber pilots don't often fly fighters, they are trained just to go in, bomb, and get out. Fighter pilots aren't really taught the complexity of a bomber. (then again, it could be explained away by saying that the coming years would have simpler fighters, ones even a trained chimp could fly... we are talking about space here. Falling out of the sky because you're used to a F16 and flying a C130 wouldn't be an issue really.)

If anything there should be more pilots than planes -- because you want to be able to scramble all your fighters at once, and at any given time a third of your pilots are going to be asleep. In WC-actuality, though, there's a one-to-one ratio -- so the Midway would have 252 pilots (later in the game, minus casualties).

The "roster" in the game certainly isn't the whole of her complement, though -- we see more than half a dozen pilots in FMV references who don't show up on the killboard: Capp, Lisa, Hill, Renko, Furillo, Vanguard, Cantrell, Fish, T Dog, etc.
 

Edfilho

Cry some more!
Well, considering the number of different fighters you pilot, it SEEMS that they have one of each to every pilot :). But I know that it isn't the case.

LOAF, what would be the Full wing in the Cerberus?
 

Iceman16

Vice Admiral
IIRC the Cerberus has 30 or so fighters and bombers, so I think they have 2 full squadrons(one fighter/interceptor one bomber) which makes up their wing.
 

FrostyNSO

Spaceman
A large ship like the Midway would also likely have an SWACS squadron (with maybe 5 ships, each with a crew of 4), a Search-and-Rescue Squadron, and a Tanker squadron. Probably 5 Tanker Condors, and 5 SAR Condors. I'm guessing with a crews of 4 each as well? Maybe a Marine Transport squadron to fly those Hercules landers. How many of these would the Midway have? Probably have 3 crew (pilot, co-pilot, weapons officer)?

Any thoughts???

*edited for bonehead spelling error.
 

Edfilho

Cry some more!
Now, what is the objective of the Cerberus fighter wing? simple protection of the Cruiser? Small actions against pirates and raiders?
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
The Cerberus is a quick-strike cruiser... so I guess its wing might be used for striking stuff quickly :p.
 

Iceman16

Vice Admiral
THe Cerberus was based on the jeep-carriers of the Kilrathi war (eg Tarawa) so its purpose is basically the same as the jeep-carriers, do as much damage as possible before getting destroyed.
 
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