Space Stations

Blaster

Rear Admiral
Is there anything that gives a good idea of how many people in the Confederation live in space stations? Paladin is the only one I can remember who was said to have grown up on one of them, everyone else seem to come from a planet. Privateer, however, makes it look like living in space is common. The capital of the entire sector is even a space station. Is it possible there are just as many or more people living in space as on planet surfaces?
 

Iceblade

Admiral
Probably not....some systems that may have lots of resources may not have good planets for habitation....but seriously would you want to live on a space station or on a planet. (sure, SS are nice places to visit, but living on one...yeah right)

Note: all conjecture here
 

Bigt028

Rear Admiral
what about the station that Blair lived on for 10 years...Carniveron..i may not have spelled that correclty...at the beginning of WCII....doesnt he get shipped there..
 

Dyret

Super Carrot!
Most of the time I'd think people who work on space stations would live on space stations, unless they have a centurion or something parked in their back yard and happen to find a really, really nice planet to live on in the same system.
 

Dyret

Super Carrot!
Yeah, I wasn't just replying to your post. I can think of all sorts of reasons why people would end up on a space station in the first place though. Work, economy, space, etc.

Besides, I don't think a 27. century space station would be that terrible to live on. I'm sure at least places like NC and Perry have bars, gyms, swimming halls, malls, gravity, and whatever else you need to keep yourself happy and content.
 

Kaunisto

Rear Admiral
How many planetary colonies do we know sizes of?
I'd be easier to compare life on planet and on station if we had an estimated size of a planetary city.
(I would assume a colony, even one with millions of people, would still be a single city, at least for most part. Correct me if you have better knowledge on population spread on planets.)
 

Iceblade

Admiral
It would depend on the culture that colonized...eg more rural people would probably lead to a planet of farmers with smaller cities or towns.
 

Mancubus

Rear Admiral
I wasn't talking about station personnel, shopkeepers, etc.

Heh if you're not talkiing about them, the answer would be probably... nobody I really don't think anyone would live in the space station if he/she didn't have a job there - it's a long ride home from planet to station after all... so probably the only ppl living in Space Stations would be station personnel and people serving them - witch BTW may include everyone from doctors through caretakers and shopkeepers to bank clercks and prostitutes, and of course their families.

On second thought - some people working at home like novelists may chose to live in space but I don't think anybody with steady job on the palnet would
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Is there anything that gives a good idea of how many people in the Confederation live in space stations? Paladin is the only one I can remember who was said to have grown up on one of them, everyone else seem to come from a planet. Privateer, however, makes it look like living in space is common. The capital of the entire sector is even a space station. Is it possible there are just as many or more people living in space as on planet surfaces?

I don't think we can have an accurate answer for you beyond that yes, there are people in the Wing Commander universe who live on space stations. I seriously doubt the number on space stations could ever approach the number on planets -- since planets are much, much larger and are more naturally homes than space stations. There are colonies out there with populations in the billions... I can't imagine an equivalent number on any space station.

what about the station that Blair lived on for 10 years...Carniveron..i may not have spelled that correclty...at the beginning of WCII....doesnt he get shipped there..

Well, I think the issue here isn't whether or not people live-to-work on space stations, but whether or not there are space stations that are, for the lack of a better term, space cities. Certainly, miners live on mining bases, pirates live on pirate bases, fighter pilots live on navy bases and so forth -- but are there just general space station populations (we exempt Paladin, even, as an example - he was born on a space station because his parents were engineers working to terraform the planet below)?

Still, I think there are 'space cities':

* According to the Privateer manual, New Constantinople is "a major population center, with representatives of every major industry"

* Panther claims that "thousands of civilians would be killed if you [bomb Ella]! The super-base isn't isolated from the rest of the system" in Wing Commander IV, presumably meaning that it isn't *just* a military base.

* Secret Ops references the 'TSY Arcology' at several points, which would by name alone seem to be a space city (also the fact that it plays host to a drydock, terrorist bombers and general assembly hearings.)

* The Confederation Handbook's material on Pilgrim history says that their abilities derived from generations born and raised on space stations (in the Sol System), who became increasingly distant from their anscestors on Earth.

How many planetary colonies do we know sizes of?
I'd be easier to compare life on planet and on station if we had an estimated size of a planetary city.
(I would assume a colony, even one with millions of people, would still be a single city, at least for most part. Correct me if you have better knowledge on population spread on planets.)

It varies wildly -- we know of colony planets with as few as a couple thousand people... and others with billions. In the first moves of the war the Kilrathi captured 153 frontier systems with a total population of 28 billion... that averages out to something like 180 million per planet. (In a war where multiple trillions died, there had to be some pretty serious populations on the worlds affected by the fighting.)
 

Farbourne

Rear Admiral
A few points:

Content yes....but they can't provide a sky (not a real one anyway)

One could make the same argument about L.A., at least during smog season. :) Seriously, though, people in Norway or Alaska go for months without seeing a daytime sky, just starry nights, same as in a space station. I imagine a space station could be easier, since you don't have the cold. It's all what you're accustomed to. In an Issac Asimov novel, people in future societies have roofed their cities and are actually afraid of the open sky, because no one grew up looking at it.

but seriously would you want to live on a space station or on a planet.

It would depend on the planet. I imagine living on an relatively inhospitable planet would be no better...and perhaps worse...than living on a space station. You're still stuck inside in domes or something, you have confined space to deal with, you possibly have something like dust storms or corrosive poisonous atmosphere (e.g. Venus) or extreme cold to contend with, and living in a space station would be preferable (better natural light, possibly more space if construction conditions on the planet were more difficult than construction in space, more reliable power supply, etc.)

It varies wildly -- we know of colony planets with as few as a couple thousand people... and others with billions. In the first moves of the war the Kilrathi captured 153 frontier systems with a total population of 28 billion... that averages out to something like 180 million per planet. (In a war where multiple trillions died, there had to be some pretty serious populations on the worlds affected by the fighting.)

You make the point about widely varying populations, but then imply that the average colony has something like 180 million. I think it's very deceptive to use a mean population, since planets do vary widely, and the average is likely skewed by a very small number of earthlike planets with huge populations. Consider our solar system. There's two, maybe three planets that would be habitable by 27th century standards, probably, and maybe two or three more large moons. Only one is "earthlike", and that planet currently has a population of 6 billion. Imagine we managed to get a Mars colony going with ~1 Million, and then everything else you could imagine colonizing you only get a few tens of thousands (trying to build any kind of bigger population complex on Mercury, Venus, or Europa or something would be prohibitive even with advanced technology because of environmental hazards as well as available size of the planet). The average population in our solar system would then be about 1 billion per colony, but the median population would only be a few tens of thousands. In the case you cite, the Kilrathi could have easily captured four earthlike planets with 6 billion people each...and then 149 mining colonies each with only a couple tens of thousand people each.

On the other hand, we know that space stations can be built in the 27th century to support tens of thousands of people. In a way, it's easier to build a big space station than a big colony on a planet with a hostile environment, because, assuming you can get the materials into space, construction is much easier in microgravity.
 

Iceblade

Admiral
Obviously, I was referring to earth like and terraformed world. :rolleyes:

And there is a lot more to starry night sky than what can be seen from space...and no open air....your in a confined space even in a large courtyard sky area. You would need some large domed city to get anything close to a sky on a space station.

Also, it is much easier for individuals to build and live on frontier worlds than they ever could as a massive whole build a space station without the help of big corporate or government interests.

Some (especially the most populated) worlds are already going to be ready to be settled with little in the way of planet wide manipulation. Very easy for smaller units of people to branch out and form a colony compared to building a space station.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
You make the point about widely varying populations, but then imply that the average colony has something like 180 million. I think it's very deceptive to use a mean population, since planets do vary widely, and the average is likely skewed by a very small number of earthlike planets with huge populations. Consider our solar system. There's two, maybe three planets that would be habitable by 27th century standards, probably, and maybe two or three more large moons. Only one is "earthlike", and that planet currently has a population of 6 billion. Imagine we managed to get a Mars colony going with ~1 Million, and then everything else you could imagine colonizing you only get a few tens of thousands (trying to build any kind of bigger population complex on Mercury, Venus, or Europa or something would be prohibitive even with advanced technology because of environmental hazards as well as available size of the planet). The average population in our solar system would then be about 1 billion per colony, but the median population would only be a few tens of thousands. In the case you cite, the Kilrathi could have easily captured four earthlike planets with 6 billion people each...and then 149 mining colonies each with only a couple tens of thousand people each.

That's me, allright, always trying to deceive people by using the wrong kind of average. :) Seriously, though, we only have the two facts I included -- 153 systems with a population 28 billion. If it wasn't apparent that I was just dividing one by the other, I apologize -- but try getting anything else from those points alone. (Heck, we're talking about 153 *systems* -- any number of them could have multiple planets in it... we're just working with the data we have).

Actually, Privateer 2 has some *very* specific population data for its three systems/eighteen planets. It's not the Confederation during the war, but it might be representative of the kind of range you'll see in human colonies:

Hom System
Anhur - 10,726,563,812
Crius - 6,594,576,712
Hermes - 8,812,645
Petra - 1,134,456
Serca - 47,034
Terrel - 1,345,786

Isaac System
Athos - 7,256,094
Hades - 546,753,425
Janus IV - 435,872
Karatikus - 13,727,671,948
Leviatha - 50,345
Massanas - 2,123,453

Irrulan System
Bex - 942,647,717
Corinthias - 23,897
Desolia - 12,432,045
Destinas - 1,536,890
Hephaestus - 4,536,761,248
Ostinia - 345,439

On the other hand, we know that space stations can be built in the 27th century to support tens of thousands of people. In a way, it's easier to build a big space station than a big colony on a planet with a hostile environment, because, assuming you can get the materials into space, construction is much easier in microgravity.

There's something of a chicken-and-egg scenario going on here, though -- building a self-sufficient space station in the first place seems like it would require resources from a planetary base.
 

Iceblade

Admiral
There's something of a chicken-and-egg scenario going on here, though -- building a self-sufficient space station in the first place seems like it would require resources from a planetary base.

Well, a lot of stuff can be gotten from trade, but granted that isn't very self-sufficient for materials excluding food. Recycling could be used to some extent however....except for power supply (solar can only get you so far).
 
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