Reusable Fuel Transit Drive

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PenderMillsap

Spaceman
Earlier this year I have sent to the United States Patent and Trademark
Office a request to have my Reusable Fuel Transit Drive patented. The Reusable Fuel Transit Drive is a new real world type of spaceship drive that is identical to a standard transit drive except for the following: The Reusable Fuel Transit Drive works by having the combustion chambers exit the exhaust out of them through the exhaust nozzles (an action causing the ship to move in an opposite reaction) into curved pipes. The exhaust goes through the curved pipes slowly back to the combustion chambers by the use of panels. Pipe1 is basically C shaped and Pipe 2 is basically C shaped when looking at it from the opposite side except the forward parts of the pipes are straight and flat. Then the exhaust is then used again in the combustion chambers and the process repeats itself.

The exhaust pushes the spacecraft like a docked ship pushing another
ship. This is why the spacecraft's structure, aside from the capture pipes,
combustion chambers, and exhaust nozzles, does not totally cancel out
the exhaust's thrust.

Let us take for example the space shuttle used by NASA. If a straight pipe was connected to each exhaust nozzle of the shuttle and each pipe's ends that were away from the exhaust nozzles were always sealed and each pipe had doors at the end of the pipe next to the exhaust nozzle (and those doors were open
when the space shuttle attempted to move), then the fuel would go out of the
exhaust nozzles (the fuel would thus become exhaust) and into the pipes while the shuttle is moving forward, then immediately the pipes' doors would seal
shut trapping the exhaust inside the pipes. Then the fuel would impact the
sealed ends of the pipes and cause the shuttle to move backwards. Thus it is
possible for a spacecraft to move with sealed pipes attached to the exhaust
nozzles. As you can see, the pipes can be completely attached to the exhaust
nozzles and so the pipes can be part of the spacecraft. My task now is to
reconfigure the pipes so that they send the exhaust back to the combustion chamber to be used again. Here's how they'll do it:

The exhaust coming out of the left exhaust nozzle and right exhaust nozzle
creates the 1st force force to cause the ship to move forward (first forwards movement).

The exhaust then goes straight down impacting the aft right curve of the left
return pipe and aft left curve of the right return pipe creating the 2nd
force causing the ship to move backwards cancelling out the first forward movement.

Next, the exhaust in the left return pipe goes down and to the left
impacting the aft right curve creating the 3rd backwards left force causing the
ship to move backwards and to the left and the exhaust in the right return pipe
goes down and to the right impacting the aft left curve creating the 3rd
backwards right force causing the ship to move backwards and to the right - these two left and right forces cancel each other out.

Next the exhaust in the left return pipe goes straight to the left and
impacts the left curve creating the 4th force and the exhaust in the
right return pipe goes straight to the right and impacts the right curve creating
the 4th force - these two left and right forces cancel each other out.

Next, the exhaust in the left return pipe goes forwards and to the left and impacts the left side of the aft left curve pushing the ship forwards and to the left (5th left force) while the exhaust in the right return pipe goes up and to the right and impacts the right side of the aft right curve pushing the ship forwards and to the right (5th right force) - these two left and right forces cancel each other out and the forward forces cancel out the backward 3rd forces.

Next, the exhaust in both return pipes goes straight forwards pushing
the ship forwards (6th forces).

Next, the exhaust in the left return pipe goes forward and to the right against the left return pipe's forward right curve pushing the ship forward and to the right (7th left force) while the exhaust in the right return pipe goes forward and to the left against the right return pipe's forward left curve pushing the ship forward and to the left (7th right force). The left and right forces cancel each other out.

Next, the exhaust in the left return pipe goes straight to the right against
the right side of the left return pipe in an attempt to push the ship to the
right (8th left force) and the exhaust in the right return pipe goes to straight to the left against the left side of the right return pipe in an attempt to push the ship to the left - (8th right force) both attempts fail because they each cancel each other out. The exhaust is then stopped in sections A and B.

Next, the exhaust in both of the return pipes is, by the use of panels, pushed very slowly backwards into the combustion chambers to where the exhaust
impacts the exhaust nozzles pushing the ship a little bit backwards (Force 9) but
not fast enough to cancel out the combined forward force movements of forces 6
& 7, just 7. As you can see, Force 6 is not cancelled out. The exhaust is
heated up again and is ejected out like it was originally before and the
process repeats itself.

Forward parts of return pipes are straight; they're not curved.
Bulkhead
__________________________________________________
/ 7****** >>>8PanelL|***** |PaneLR8 <<< ******7\
| * ^* ____Fuel Supply1 |*****| Fuel Supply2 |**| *^* |
| * ^* |** | Fuel Pump1 |*****| Fuel Pump2 *|**| *^* |
| * ^* |** |*********|*****|********** |**| *^* |
| * ^* |** | Combustion |*****| Combustion |**| *^* |
|6 ^* |** | Chamber 1* |*****| Chamber 2*|** |*^6|
| * ^* |** | ****9****|*****|*****9*** |***|*^* |
| * ^* |1* | Exhaust * |*****| Exhaust*****|*1| * ^ * |
| * ^* |** | Nozzle 1* |*****| Nozzle 2*****|**| * ^* |
| * ^* |**/****2****/ *****\ 2**********\ * | * ^* |
| Pipe1 |_/********3/****** *\ 3********** \_| Pipe2 |
\5___4<<_____/*********\______>>4______5/

Greater than and less than symbols and carrot symbols indicate directions of exhaust. Forward and backslash symbols (except for exhaust nozzles) are to
make capture pipes appear curved. Asteriks are used to make diagram
appear correct.

The Reusable Fuel Transit Drive has several advantages.

1. It can, well, reuse the fuel it's supplied with. Thus it's a perpetual motion machine since spacecraft power plants never run out of electrical power (but they can run out of fuel unless they use this reusable fuel drive) and fuel supplies can be much lower using this drive.

2. Considering how that the exhaust can be totally contained in the
spacecraft, it is impossible to see the exhaust thus it does not give
off an energy trail. This is good when the crew/pilot wants to avoid energy trail
detection.

It does have two disadvantages:
1. The Reusable transit drive is much heavier than a normal transit
drive since its return pipes and panels require construction.

2. The exhaust will get hotter and hotter as it's reused in the
combustion chambers over and over again and the friction created as the exhaust
particles skid along the return pipes will cause the exhaust to get even more
hotter. Such heat will cause the particles to get too hot and cause them to
melt the pipes, exhaust nozzles, and/or combustion chambers thus ruining the
drive. But since Wing Commander is fictious we could say that a new element could be found and/or developed in the CBT Universe that can excellently withstand heat - we'll call it Element Wiithstaand.
 

TurboTim07

Rear Admiral
dude....umm... wow. that's pretty complicated stuff man. it sounds interesting but way way too complicated for me.
 

d3r3k

Spaceman
wow, this guy has got it all! a genius that can design propulsion systems and has a company capable of buying the wing commander rights!

you'd think such an accomplished man would be able to show us the schematics for his engine with something more advanced than ascii art.
 

Haesslich

Spaceman
Um... two problems:

1) The exhaust which gets caught up by the pipes will have effectively wasted any energy that was being used to propel the ship, since it's moving in the opposite direction, which means that this is a perpetually motionless machine, or rather one that vibrates a damned lot but doesn't go anywhere. Therefore, you've wasted the fuel, and even worse you would've gotten more propulsion by just ejecting the stuff out the damned engine, as compared to burning it here.

2) Joshua's protege has obviously found a new way to present Blackfuel. The only difference is he references Classic Battletech, and Classic Battletech has no element which could withstand heat this well, nor does it use engines which work in this fashion.
 

Phy

Spaceman
Had to register just to reply to this... You've messed up your accounting somewhere. It's most likely that your "force 6" will be countered by the force required to pump spent fuel into the combustion chamber. (Never mind that the idea of combusting exhaust gases is just bizarre. You'd need a magic transmution box just to get everything back into fuel state, and that would eat power too - as much if not more than you'd get out combusting it in the first place, considering the Second Law of Thermo.)

The simple fact is that for a reaction engine to work, you need momentum to escape the system. By sealing off the exhaust nozzles, you ensure that all momentum is retained within the engine, no matter how you duct it. Considered from an outside point, there will be zero change in momentum, because there's nothing escaping. Plus, as you mentioned, you're generating lots of heat.

You've essentially invented the furnace. No hard feelin's... ;)
 

PenderMillsap

Spaceman
Yes I am the same guy who initially wanted to buy all the copyrights. Haesslich and Phy, did you two read everything I typed? Force 6 will not be captured and cancelled out. The fuel pumps pump fuel very slowly into the combustion chambers - such slow speed will not cancel out Force 6. Sorry for having to use ASCII diagram but I don't have anything better I can use. As for using blackfuel, blackfuel will undoubtedly burn the instant it's in the combustion chambers - thus it will be hot and it will thus glow - so it'll show up and be quite visible in space. Thus blackfuel is not sufficient. My design is far superior to "blackfuel". I decided to show you all how it worked in case another WC game was made - this way the writers and fans could use my idea (but not my physical invention) for their and your games - I'm just sharing my knowledge with you all. By the way Sections A & B are where Panels L & R are located. Sorry for not including that information earlier and sorry for crude appearance of the diagram I didn't have much time to edit it.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
PenderMillsap said:
Haesslich and Phy, did you two read everything I typed? Force 6 will not be captured and cancelled out. The fuel pumps pump fuel very slowly into the combustion chambers - such slow speed will not cancel out Force 6. Sorry for having to use ASCII diagram but I don't have anything better I can use. As for using blackfuel, blackfuel will undoubtedly burn the instant it's in the combustion chambers - thus it will be hot and it will glow - so it'll show up and be quite visible in space. Thus blackfuel is not sufficient. My design is sufficient.

You're not as cute as you think you are.
 

Haesslich

Spaceman
PenderMillsap said:
Yes I am the same guy who initially wanted to buy all the copyrights. Haesslich and Phy, did you two read everything I typed? Force 6 will not be captured and cancelled out. The fuel pumps pump fuel very slowly into the combustion chambers - such slow speed will not cancel out Force 6. Sorry for having to use ASCII diagram but I don't have anything better I can use. As for using blackfuel, blackfuel will undoubtedly burn the instant it's in the combustion chambers - thus it will be hot and it will thus glow - so it'll show up and be quite visible in space. Thus blackfuel is not sufficient. My design is far superior to "blackfuel". I decided to show you all how it worked in case another WC game was made - this way the writers and fans could use my idea (but not my physical invention) for their and your games - I'm just sharing my knowledge with you all. By the way Sections A & B are where Panels L & R are located. Sorry for not including that information earlier and sorry for crude appearance of the diagram I didn't have much time to edit it.

Son, have you even HEARD of physics before?

The vectors alone cause problems here - remember that reaction drives, as Phy stated, require that you eject something out of them to get the reaction - you've probably at least HEARD of 'Newton's Laws of Motion', right? You know, 'for each action, there's an equal and opposite reaction'? That's still good enough to describe things on our scale, as far as why this engine wouldn't work - if you're just ejecting material out the back (which works for low-powered drive-units on the Shuttle or on MMUs), then that'll send you off on a vector. Sending that vector out of one jet, only to catch it in the other defeats the purpose, since now you've caught that momentum and (mostly) cancelled out the vector you created in the first place. Worse yet, you have to spend energy to move the fuel around that huge convoluted mess of piping... and you've still failed to show how this is of a greater advantage than normal reaction drives.


You'd get more thrust just shooting it out the pipes; the simple act of shooting the fuel out through those pipes will create a small vector, which catching it will cancel out as it acts on the side of the engine in a reverse fashion. If you can make this work in the real world, then that'll be more post-worthy than this monstrosity.

Of course, I have about as much hope for this working as I do for LOAF ever abandoning Wing Commander to pursue his love for Freespace and its great impact on the space-sim market.

Colonel Sanders said:
I'm not sure which set of laws were bent more in that post...the laws of physics or the laws of grammar.

I'd start with the laws of physics, move into logic, and then end with grammar to begin with.
 

Madman

Vice Admiral
now i wont lie, haesslich said pretty much everything i was going to except this final comment - are you an economics student? theyre the only people who ive ever met who could possibly be so blindly stupid and ... we inconcievably dumb!

this is without a doubt, the daftest idea ive ever heard... i give in... youve stunned me with your moronicity.

oh by the way, let us know how the patent goes? ;)
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Back when the internet was young and we didn't let regular idiots play yet we had guys like this fellow - crackpot weirdos who posted outlandish things to get attention.

It was a better time.
 

SonOfStorm

Spaceman
Wow interesting concept assumng like everyone else has pointed out that you completely discount newtonian physics and thermodynamics. Seriously the method you describe would never work in any universe real of fictional. Not to mention the materials problems you will have. This is worse then my water burning engine, of course that really wasn't that bad, just too power intensive and came quite close to heavily bending some thermo laws. Oh and just in case there is any curiousity about where I am coming from, I am an aerospace engineer, I live and breath the laws of newtonian physics and thermodynamics, not so much materials, but I work closely with the materials guys.
 
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