reasonable predictions for a new WC game

How bout the complete collaspe of the Terran Confederacy? Other shows like Battlestar Galactica do this merely out of a premise but this would make for a powerful story line and raise intruguing question of what they do afterwards.

I hate it when the humans always win...I wanna lose.... I want to see survival and rebels, salvage and a unifing force in the midst of great adversity. that what sci fi is missing...
 
How bout the complete collaspe of the Terran Confederacy? Other shows like Battlestar Galactica do this merely out of a premise but this would make for a powerful story line and raise intruguing question of what they do afterwards.

I hate it when the humans always win...I wanna lose.... I want to see survival and rebels, salvage and a unifing force in the midst of great adversity. that what sci fi is missing...

you mean like gears of war? or, throwing further back, Homeworld?
 
Collapse? Nahh. On the brink of it? Much better.

Never underestimate the trill of defeat...
Think about the Matrix Revolutions...
The Dock was over run everything destroyed complete at their mercy, think about Lord of the Ring, the Two Towers and the battle of Helms Deep, Think...Wing Commander End Run when those Kirathi battle ships out manuvered confed by killing everyone in Admiralty House and wiping out the heads of Confed Military...the desprate action to survive, the kamikaze runs on the carriers and Civilian ships, fodder for the guns as the marines stormed the carriers and blew the carriers and themselves up as nukes landed on EARTH!!!

God...all of it was great drama. Just Imagin goving over the edge....

Ever play the losing branches?
WC4's story was about that very brink (never played so I'm not sure)

I played the losing branches of the original WC...it was bleak. I was roller coaster. Some stories are about the good and the bad. Ended up at Hell's Kitchen as a last defense.

you mean like gears of war? or, throwing further back, Homeworld?

I'm going to go with YEAH!
But when I think bad situation I think...

Free Space: piloting shieldless fighters and a new powerful enemy shows up! The have advanced energy weapons and impenetrable shields! In the middle of battle you're struggling to just stay alive! Your wing men are popping like zits and you're practicaly running for your life.

Then later even after you get well equipped the ship board beams were perilous! It was just awesome watching those ships turn those suckers on another captial ship. I remember the Galatea taking hit after hit after hit of those agonizing beams the enemy showed up in force.

It's like the dud from the Last Star Fighter said...I've always wanted to fight an all powerful enemy at impossible odds...

there is a trill there that is beyond compare as you hit the "Death Blossom" in the end. Will you get them all? Will you survive? That's what makes piloting games worth playing.
 
While this kind of situation can often be dramatic, I'm not sure this type of feeling hasn't already been attempted in the WC universe before. The Confederation has been close to defeat twice - once with the Kats, and once with the Bugs - and we get a third taste of this scenario (though not to the same degree) when we 'defect' to the Border Worlds.

IMO, I would love a change of perspective. How about the role of a CAG, where you fly sometimes, strategize others. Or maybe an Admrial type role, as in Homeworld, where you are commanding a small fleet (no reason you couldn't jump into the cockpit once in a while here, also.) There are so many exciting directions the universe could be taken, both in plot and play execution.
 
It's kind of odd to criticise a franchise that has some terribly desperate scenerio in nearly every game for not having a terribly desperate scenario in nearly every game. Not that I wouldn't mind reprising my role as the savior of humanity on the TCS Biggest Carrier Ever.
 
Those senarios never knocked on Earths Door.
the Enigma Sector was a front line but not near earth..
The bugs were really distant from earth and that secret mission where the got to Cygus was the closes they'd come...it wasn't desperate..


I'm talking desprate.
I'm talking battle for earth and lose the battle.
Be among the the remenant that gather the civilians and execute a flanking action to leave Earth for the one of the colonies. (I've always wanted to go back to the Goddard Planet.

Those Mega Carriers are huge they can hold somewhere near half a million people.
I imagine the mobile ship yards they would have to construct. All ways being on the move.
The need for stealth technology, hiding in Asteroid fields, and early warning systems.
Losing Carriers would be like losing entire races! Entire cultures!
Perhaps it so bad a lost they have to leave the Galaxy or that quadrant
the Mega Carrier would half to travel with a constant escort.
Imagine massive fleet battles and delaying actions just to save the Mega Carrier. Losing ships like the Eisen, TCS Austin, Thor's Hammer just to give hope for humanity surviving another day.

I think total loss is trilling. I will Star Trek had done it.
But no the Federation always survives.
 
IMO, I would love a change of perspective. How about the role of a CAG, where you fly sometimes, strategize others. Or maybe an Admrial type role, as in Homeworld, where you are commanding a small fleet (no reason you couldn't jump into the cockpit once in a while here, also.) There are so many exciting directions the universe could be taken, both in plot and play execution.

Actually, I was thinking some months back that would be sweet. Plan everyone's flight paths for whatever including your own, and the results would be dependent on who you sent where (some pilots having more skill than others), possibly with a tiny bit of luck involved. Obviously you'd have to fly in order to beat the giant everything-killer in any given scenario.
 
Has there been any new news on the new Wing Commander game besides the one post by Surfer Girl? Any updates or just a confirmation they arn't just playing with our hopes and dreams. :(
As for making the new WC game more successful...why not just add porn. You earn credits during the game and can use them to pay the strippers. After all skin sells. Fly a mission and go back to the pilot longe and watch a striptease. The better you do in the mission the more credits you get...the longer the show. You follow the winning track and do good on the missions the chicks get hotter. You follow the losing path the chicks get uglyer and fatter.
__________________
If you never let anything happen then nothing will ever happen.
 
That's already been done.

Twice.

We don't need a third Battlestar Galactica. :p

Battlestar Galactica isn't even that good. It's a soap opera. And it's searching for For Earth...
Very few have done a story line mid series to retake Earth. I think B5 was the only one...and that wasn't against aliens but humans.
 
Here's a couple of things we were discussing on IRC that I would like to see in the next WC title.

First, it needs to be, on the surface a fairly straight-forward WC game, harkening back to the originals... Yet it needs to be done exceptionally well. All those touches that made the WC universe alive in WC1 need to be there, but just imagine what could be done with todays technology. Imagine all those highdef sparks sprayin in your face and smoke coming out of your burntout VDU... Yes! COCKPITS! A virtual cockpit, like in Strike Commander would be amazing, and yes there should be a hand on the joystick. They could even work out some way to make the cockpit damage affect gameplay (beyond just not being able to target).

Even wc2,3, and 4 had an out of ship view you can control the game and shoot from. So I don't see why they couldn't have the cockpit mode *and* work at making the exterior mode more flyable. I started getting good at it in WC4 but there's no way to know exactly what you have targeted untill you are close enough. There should be the option of having a hud in the exterior mode...

It really needs to sell the idea of the universe... that there's more to the universe than just you and your fighter. It shouldn't try to change too much, rather it should really put a lot into immersion and story.

I would like to see a lot of work done on mission design... some of that stuff they planned for WC4 for example. Instead of just hearing about other missions going on, have them actually going on so you can actually fly to them any time. There should be specific objectives yet perhaps more fluidity in how you play the missions themselves: Have more emergent gameplay like the refueling ship in Prophecy. And of course: a dynamic campaign.

A lot of effort could be put into not just mission design but environmental stuff to make space more interesting: Nebulas, black holes, quasars, atmosphere missions, etc. For example, flying too close to a solar flare could either kill you or take out an enemy trailing you. "there should be pulsars that have shadows you can hide in... and asteroid fields with big asteroids you can fly past the surface of, or through holes in." There could be atmospheres you coulf fly into, and that stuff that would affect multiplayer also... comet tails; possibly gas clouds that could be ignited somehow; Functional jump points; planetary rings. Something like scylla from the movie might be neat too where there are gravitational effects to deal with.

I would probably go with CG animation for the cutscenes (in engine). Especially for a dynamic campaign this would be necessary because of the sheer amount od dialogue because of the variations. But with animation individual sentences could be mixed on the fly. The dialogue can be more fluid that way and really be in response to your flying.

As much as it was akward, do people kind of expect the various thought choices that were in the FMV in WC games.. However, in WC3 it felt ok, but WC4 it always felt like the characters were prodding you. I would really look for a better way to integrate the choices. so they don't halt the game so much. It would be kind of neat if it wasn't so much how you affected others, but as a rookie perhaps how you responde to what others say so if you respond more like maniac you might end up with some more crazy things to do in the missions
 
Sounds good... but just a little too ambitious. If I heard of a Wing Commander game promising all that I'd be upset because nothing ruins a game faster than lots of hype about real-time plant growth and the like; even if the game is good expectations get too high and people get angry.
 
Sounds good... but just a little too ambitious. If I heard of a Wing Commander game promising all that I'd be upset because nothing ruins a game faster than lots of hype about real-time plant growth and the like; even if the game is good expectations get too high and people get angry.

First and foremost, it needs to do all the things the original did really well. Beyond that, you need to consider what it going to make a lasting impression beyond just pretty graphics (which wc has always had).

The thing is, a lot of these things would be below the surface, and not particularly unrealistic, yet in the end, what is needed is a game that's fun. If it isn't that then all the rest is meaningless. That's part of where story/immersion effort comes in. It all has to work together with the mission design etc. Beyond that, the rest are suggestions. It's a sad reality that compared to most other games, space is really kind of empty. Part of EA's challenge in finding a new audience for WC is making things interesting. If you're making a WC game with multiplayer for example the genre (flying with a wingman) literally begs for a co-op campaign. Yet that an entirely different set of complicated rules regarding mission design (or A.I.)

Also, were the original WC games anything but ambitious? People will bash the game just because it's EA but more so if it's not at least a little ambitious in scope and design.
 
What I want to see is some decent enemy AI so that I don't have to be massively outgunned (e.g. Hornets vs. Hhriss) or outnumbered four to one (any Nephilim encounter) in order to be in any danger.
 
What I want, and someone mentioned this here in a way, is a way to determine what kind of pilot "I" am in the game. The fact is, I found myself quite often flying like Maniac in the Wing Commander games (especially 3 and 4, where, was it just me or did things get easier?) but I had to listen to my character berating Maniac for not flying according to regs!

AC0 tried something like this with the "Ace Style" gauge to mixed results. I'd like to see something less blatant in a Wing Commander, but still present.
 
And of course: a dynamic campaign.

Just to be clear here: do you mean the kind of 'branching campaign' the original game had, as opposed to, say, the sort you find in 'hardcore' flight-sim titles like Il-2? I realize it sounds like I'm being more pedantic than usual here, but it's a fairly big distinction; the difference between playing a limited number of scripted missions where you can determine which path you take, and a free-form, almost strategy-game viewpoint where you perform missions on a workaday basis to move the frontline around; the big shot here being of course that with the sheer variety of possible outcomes, it's difficult if not impossible to actually have a running narrative in the sense the original game had - the narrative is one created by the player in his own mind, hard to write for; not the sort of thing you expect from a big-budget, glossy Wing Commander game (which probably helps explain why it's never gained much popularity outside of the niche flight-sim community.)

Personally, I favor a very limited sort of dynamic campaign; one with a good number of scripted missions to give it continuity, and yet stretches of 'generic' gameplay where you can just take off and smash through whatever (or get smashed by whatever), and reap the consequences more fully in the scripted missions. I'm actually thinking of Emperor: Battle for Dune as a model here, though even with its budget and a conscious effort made to divide the map into provinces and distinguish them from one another, it did have too-long stretches of 'sameness'.
 
Just to be clear here: do you mean the kind of 'branching campaign' the original game had, as opposed to, say, the sort you find in 'hardcore' flight-sim titles like Il-2? I realize it sounds like I'm being more pedantic than usual here, but it's a fairly big distinction; the difference between playing a limited number of scripted missions where you can determine which path you take, and a free-form, almost strategy-game viewpoint where you perform missions on a workaday basis to move the frontline around; the big shot here being of course that with the sheer variety of possible outcomes, it's difficult if not impossible to actually have a running narrative in the sense the original game had - the narrative is one created by the player in his own mind, hard to write for; not the sort of thing you expect from a big-budget, glossy Wing Commander game (which probably helps explain why it's never gained much popularity outside of the niche flight-sim community.)

Personally, I favor a very limited sort of dynamic campaign; one with a good number of scripted missions to give it continuity, and yet stretches of 'generic' gameplay where you can just take off and smash through whatever (or get smashed by whatever), and reap the consequences more fully in the scripted missions. I'm actually thinking of Emperor: Battle for Dune as a model here, though even with its budget and a conscious effort made to divide the map into provinces and distinguish them from one another, it did have too-long stretches of 'sameness'.

I would argue that even WC1 blurs the lines between dynamic and branching. Essentially branching is a more crude version of a 100% dynamic campaign, though to some degree that can still be acheived with a story mode. Things like which wingmen died in WC1 and whether you failed a mission and kept going were totally up to the player. Hell, I even played the entire game with ejecting every mission.

So the various dialogue scenes and various mission specs were entirely decided by how you flew. That doens't need to be lost. Even with a 100% dynamic system where the WC universe is some kind of persistent being, can still have a fairly complex story. Ships and things like positions of various enemy fighter wings could be tracked by the computer even though the player might only have a limited set of nav points and objectives. If he strays off the flight path he could encounter extra resistance, but also make a future mission easier. Give the player rigid objectives but more flexibility in carrying out an individual mission. Obviously immersive stories mean scripting to varying degrees, yet even there, other than the most critical missions, many players find it rewarding to discover extra details simply by looking in the right place at the right time. Most of the more critical events you would simply tie to reaching a given nav point or even reaching the nav points in a particular order. It's all stuff that could be experimented with effectively.

To some degree Prophecy and Standoff have experimented with this. Everyone remembers the bug where the mission fails immediatly after lauch because the midway was too damaged on the previous mission. Or how the standoff folks have been experimenting (to varying success) with persistent fighter counts.
Origin also experimented heavily with dynamic campaigns back with Pacific strike.
 
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