"Re-booting" Wing Commander

Manboy

Rear Admiral
With the immenent release of C&C3 I truly now have newfound hope that we will one day see a new Wing Commander game, sooner rather than later. My rationale is that if EA are willing to spend millions shooting that glorious :)p ) FMV then surely they would consider doing the same for a new WC title. It would be assumed that they would make profits on both titles, as they have in the past.

I know it's simplistic considering Wing Commander synonomous with FMV, but it would be.....strange, if FMV were ommited from future WC games. I know that poor sales of the space-shooter genre are a major factor in there not being any new WC games out recently, and there are other ways to tell a story, but I think that if there were to be a new WC game then I think more than likely there will be live actors featured in it.

I haven't seen all that much of the C&C3 FMV yet, just bits and pieces over the net, but it looks leaps and bounds quality-wise over the previous games in the series. Not just the quality of actors (Billy-Dee Williams!!) or sets, but the story and direction feel a hell of alot more professional and realistic, a coming of age (I simply cannot wait to play this game). I'm not sure if you would call this "re-booting" or just simply an update, I guess thats the beauty of electronic entertainment - constant growth.

Anyway, if a new Wing Commander were to be made, what changes do Wingnuts see being made to the overall feel of the series? What would you approve of? What would you like, or not like to see?

I personally would like to see the series "re-booted" ala how nBSG was to the original series. The WC universe has alot of potential to reach a much larger audience, if things were done to tap into that sector. High-quality graphics, gameplay and FMV have always been trademarks of WC but they could obviously be improved...anyway, I'm gonna shut-up now....So, what would you like to see in a new Wing Commander game?
 
I don't care much about FMV now-a-days. Just a bit for C&C, because there's Kane and the nice women from BSG. There's a good chance they would choose to go for it with a new WC now, since they did it for C&C. But, really, there's no need, since now games can render the storyline quite well. They did a good job with Freelancer, a space combat sim with some cinematic storyline using the game engine to render the characters. Considering the high costs of producing a new game and the added costs of shooting FMV, I don't think FMV is that much of an improvement. Besides, a game-engine Kilrathi can look much better than anything used on FMV. The WC3-Era Kilrathi would probably don't look as good with DVD Quality. Even the settings of WCIV, when seen in DVD quality, don't look that good.

Any new WC game would be fantastic. FMV would be nice, but not necessary unless they are using Blair or Maniac. Or some very interesting casting. To have anything but a very good casting and very good FMV, they should probably stick with game engine for cutscenes, at least for the purpose of quality. I'm not really sure is that cheaper, since it's been said that Freelancer ended up costing a lot of money anyway.
 
I've noticed more and more that people are so much more "who cares" about FMV's these days. Unless there's interesting dialogue high-production values or big names no-one really cares anymore. Which is good, keeps writers and designers on their toes.

Back to this whole re-booting thing.....What about the story? The whole series so far has revolved around Blair, Towlyn and Maniac ect and that's no bad thing obviously. However I think it would be interesting and hugely entertaining if the next story had nothing to do with these characters, or even with the Confederation....

Sure, I mean it'll obviously be a space-fighter sim, the gameplay will be played out in the cockpit, just from a different point of view. Perhaps a newly founded humanoid race that's seeking to ally with Confed (or whatever) to protect themsleves from the bugs, or (even though it's been done to death) a Mercenary, a spy or maybe even a Furball. It would give the player valuable insight in how Confed works and looks to an outsider, thus expanding the WC universe, making it more full and diverse.
 
The old story around blair, maniac and tolwyn might be a good one for a television series from sci-fi channel, there is more then enough material to run at least three seasons.(in my opinion it would be a refreshment from neo-BSG, all they do is sit around and talk)
 
That's because talk scenes are cheaper than CGI action ones, and SFC doesn't exactly have a reputation for investing tons of money into their efforts.

(Hell, a lot of those "SciFi exclusive" movies are really just DTV releases that they got the rights to air because they were complete and utter crap that no one else wanted.)
 
As far as speculations go, mine is that they can go on with Casey & co, do a "prequel", "midquel" or "Return of the King" with Blair, or simply go into a completely new direction, which I think would be wise.
 
The old story around blair, maniac and tolwyn might be a good one for a television series from sci-fi channel, there is more then enough material to run at least three seasons.(in my opinion it would be a refreshment from neo-BSG, all they do is sit around and talk)

I don't mind all that dialogue. It's a drama in space, and it's actually quite refreshing. Deeper than usuall storylines make for good tv imo - beats all the shit thats usually on. Much being Wing Commander action is where the meat is and so much character interaction happens within the cockpit anyway. The trick is to not make it cheesy....WC4 had fairly adult themes, with the whole Tolwyn/genocide thing, which is why I enjoyed the WC4 storyline more than the others. So, more adult storylines would a place to start...
 
The trick is to not make it cheesy....WC4 had fairly adult themes, with the whole Tolwyn/genocide thing, which is why I enjoyed the WC4 storyline more than the others. So, more adult storylines would a place to start...
Uh, you seem to be implying that WC4's storyline wasn't cheesy - but it really was. I mean, a super-secret Space Nazi organisation planning to kill off almost everybody, villains who laugh evilly after cutting someone's throat, super-powerful special weapons, and of course the classic driven-mad-by-war military commander... storylines really don't get cheesier than that, and all the adult themes were rehashes of standard stuff that you'll find in any (bad) superhero movie. The story's only (but very significant) saving grace was the interactivity of it - fighting Space Nazis didn't feel at all cheesy because the game's hero didn't just run around yelling "you'll never get away with this, Evil Tolwyn!", but instead had the option to become evil himself. This made the game hugely interesting - but in all honesty, it wasn't even remotely as "adult" a storyline as the earlier games, which didn't try to force any great big issues, but nonetheless ended up touching upon a lot of deep stuff (Hobbes alone would be enough to provide you with more adult themes than all of WC4).

Come to think of it, I guess that's my problem with BSG as well - while I do find the show quite watchable and enjoyable, I really don't like the way it tries to be deeply intelligent. All that stuff about monotheism vs. polytheism, not to mention the creepy "Iraqi suicide bombers killing American soldiers are really good guys" thing (what is that message doing in an American show?)... all such issues are done in a clumsy, ham-fisted way that detracts from the show rather than adding to it. Far more interesting are the little throwaway side-issues that they sometimes add, probably by accident (...at least, they seem accidental because they're usually not followed upon) - things like how getting repeatedly killed and reincarnated affects different Cylons, etc.
 
WC4 was very cheesy at times, but I like to think there was a little more to it than the... cheesiness, I guess. The more overt aspects are really bad, I find some better things around. Eisen gives some insightful comments to Blair about the nature of Confederation, for example. But, in the end, the confrontation between Blair and Tolwyn would be much more dramatic and interesting if the later didn’t metamorphosed into an evil madman who casually mentioned his plans to slaughter billions with a grin. Had Tolwyn actually demonstrated a little bit of sympathy at that point, it would've enriched the plot. It was too over the top. Space Nazis. With Black Uniforms. Killing innocent people. And laughting while at it. The game brings some interesting issues like social engineering, eugenics, and genetic manipulation, but cheapens the whole thing with this approach.

That being said, I think what limits FMV is the quality of the production. Compression made WC3 look good and WC4 look fantastic, but it costs a lot more to make something look good on DVD.
 
Uh, you seem to be implying that WC4's storyline wasn't cheesy - but it really was. I mean, a super-secret Space Nazi organisation planning to kill off almost everybody, villains who laugh evilly after cutting someone's throat, super-powerful special weapons, and of course the classic driven-mad-by-war military commander... storylines really don't get cheesier than that, and all the adult themes were rehashes of standard stuff that you'll find in any (bad) superhero movie. The story's only (but very significant) saving grace was the interactivity of it - fighting Space Nazis didn't feel at all cheesy because the game's hero didn't just run around yelling "you'll never get away with this, Evil Tolwyn!", but instead had the option to become evil himself. This made the game hugely interesting - but in all honesty, it wasn't even remotely as "adult" a storyline as the earlier games, which didn't try to force any great big issues, but nonetheless ended up touching upon a lot of deep stuff (Hobbes alone would be enough to provide you with more adult themes than all of WC4).

I have agree with you, WC4 is cheesy (The Borderworlds take no prisoners!), but then again so was the rest of the series, in its own charming way.
I can see its a matter of perspective in regards to what people find "adult" about any given story/enviroment, but for the age of 16 I thought WC4 provided a different more realistic view of the WC universe. And I was grateful for it. I thought the storyline allowed the characters to show a more emotional side to them than usuall - thats what I'm after anyway.

That being said, I think what limits FMV is the quality of the production. Compression made WC3 look good and WC4 look fantastic, but it costs a lot more to make something look good on DVD.
Thats why I'm a tad eager to see how C&C3 works out. So far the quality looks superb - hopefully that transfers onto home pcs. It's coming out on the 360 aswell and I cant imagine the quality of video being anything less that crystal clear. Heres hoping.
 
I wonder if a new Wing Commander will go the way of many big titles (Star Trek, Batman, Superman), doing a prequel. What we know of the early days of the Kilrathi War is mostly bits an pieces, and the story is also a strong point to revive a game series. Cheesy as it may be, the "alien race attacks Earth"-plot has lots of tactical potential in a game: New "old" weapons, new fighter designs, a visual oberhaul that hints at the earlier games but does not need to copy them, even an UFO-style tech tree development could be realized without running into continuity problems. The prequel also avoids the loose plot ends from WCP, and even the often-discussed problem of Blair; as he won't be actively serving. But new FMV? Possibly very, very little (comms, TV news snippets), as the money factor is unquestionably high. I could imagine the rest to be done in-engine, or in nicely hand-painted graphics tableaux (Anyone remember Aquanox Revelation?).

I can't really believe in a continuation of the WCP plotline. A new game has to create a market from old as well as new gamers, and the newer ones would have a hard time identifying with the bug story (cheesy, as it is).

The "Re-Imagination" would be a completely different possibility. I still like the new BSG for its thorough work in updating the visuals as well as the characters, but you're right - it tries too hard to be intelligent, subtle, and un-cheesy. But in the case of WC, I think it couldn't be done. Simply taking the old storylines and pasting new game visuals, CGI cutscenes etc. on top would be the most cost effective way I guess, but it would be very hard on the bitching crowd of old fans (that's us).
 
I wonder if a new Wing Commander will go the way of many big titles (Star Trek, Batman, Superman), doing a prequel. What we know of the early days of the Kilrathi War is mostly bits an pieces, and the story is also a strong point to revive a game series. Cheesy as it may be, the "alien race attacks Earth"-plot has lots of tactical potential in a game: New "old" weapons, new fighter designs, a visual oberhaul that hints at the earlier games but does not need to copy them, even an UFO-style tech tree development could be realized without running into continuity problems.

That's actually not a bad idea. I've never really liked the idea of prequals. I've always prefered the story to continue down the timeline, but you've got some good ideas. The tech-tree aspect could make for some interesting gameplay mechanics. Plus it's always great to fly against the cats - and to see how they were feared when contact was first "established".

Still, I would like to see a hybrid of the past and the present, maybe even future timelines told in a stroy arc, narrated by someone famous within the universe, perhaps even a beyond the grave Tolwyn...
 
I'd like to see a prequal just because I am partial to our furry friends the kilrathi.. however there is NO reason why a continuation of the pre-existing plotline can't be done. The Bugs were just as interesting and a hellofalot better pilots than the furballs. But if its true that they were just one of three races making up some galactic core monolith, then THAT is a plot that I want explored.

besides.. I rather like the high performance fighters of Prophecy.
 
The Bugs were just as interesting and a hellofalot better pilots than the furballs.

What bugs were you fighting??? WCP was fun, but that good old fashioned WC2 style challenge just wasn't there. Come to think of it, they're going to have to go a heck of a lot deeper into the history of the bugs/alligned peoples concept before they'll be half as interesting as the Kilrathi.
 
I agree, the Kilrarthi had more depth. Their bodies were humanoid and possessed traits in their foibles that humans produced. Which made the enemy, for myself agreeable.
I was not happy with the aliens, I felt their personification was rather "dull'.
 
What bugs were you fighting??? WCP was fun, but that good old fashioned WC2 style challenge just wasn't there. Come to think of it, they're going to have to go a heck of a lot deeper into the history of the bugs/alligned peoples concept before they'll be half as interesting as the Kilrathi.

For the kats, there's 11 games (WC1 and add-ons, WC2 and addons, WC3, WC4, Privateer and add-on, Armada) and their manual information based on a setup that already has humanity familiar with the Kilrathi, a full-length motion picture, and ten books (including the WC3, WC4, and movie novelizations, but not the "junior" WCM novelization).

Compare that to the two games with the bug-like aliens that are a fresh contact as of the first time we see them, and very little actually shown about them in the game or the background information for said games.

Gee, I wonder why the kats look more fleshed out...

:rolleyes:
 
As far as speculations go, mine is that they can go on with Casey & co, do a "prequel", "midquel" or "Return of the King" with Blair, or simply go into a completely new direction, which I think would be wise.

Wing Commander does not need Christopher Blair. Bringing him back will likely result in the same groaning and eye-rolling that happened when Ripley came back for the fourth Alien installment.
 
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