PSP Launch

cff

Kilk'dymga'qith laq Ik'vikvi
Ist the same problem as with any current TFT display. IIRC they are allowed to have something like 5 constant black or white pixels and 10 to 15 that are constant on one color or that cannot display one color. Up to that level it isn't considered a manufaturing error and you cannot return the TFT. You are right however that usually you won't have any errors at all.
 

Trelane

On my way to court in a suit and a tie
I'm just chiming in to say that pixel problems really aren't that big of a deal. My PSP has a couple whitish ones next to eachother on the left and a single black one in the corner, and I really only notice them when the screen is a solid color or when I'm actually going out of my way to find them.

Other folks are a lot more picky though, and from what I've heard, most stores are honoring replacement policies for them.
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
Trelane said:
I'm just chiming in to say that pixel problems really aren't that big of a deal. My PSP has a couple whitish ones next to eachother on the left and a single black one in the corner, and I really only notice them when the screen is a solid color or when I'm actually going out of my way to find them.
Ah, that made a lot more sense than all that tech-speak that went straight over my head like a Flobee. And yes, I like that avatar as well.
 

Worf

Vice Admiral
cff said:
Ist the same problem as with any current TFT display. IIRC they are allowed to have something like 5 constant black or white pixels and 10 to 15 that are constant on one color or that cannot display one color. Up to that level it isn't considered a manufaturing error and you cannot return the TFT. You are right however that usually you won't have any errors at all.
Actually, going by standards, I believe you're allowed on a 1280x1024 display 3 full pixels, or 7 subpixels before it doesn't meet the standard anymore (ISO class 2 for LCD panels, I think). Most manufacturers use this standard, except BenQ, which acknowledges that they use a lower standard.

Some research on the topic follows. Skip the italic section if you don't want the nitty-gritty details.


ISO 13406-2 is the applicable standard for LCD monitors. According to it, there are 4 types of faults - always lit pixels, always unlit pixels, other defects, and clusters of defects (the number of defects in a 5x5 pixel square).

Class 1 means no defects at all.
Class 2 means up to 2 lit, 2 unit and 5 other faults, with zero lit/unlit defects in a cluster, and up to 5 other defects in a cluster. This is defects per *million* pixels. Most manufacturesr claim to support this standard. Thought they are slightly looser.
Class 3 (only BenQ admits to using this stadnard) offers 5 lit, 15 unlit, 50 other defects, zero lit/units in a cluster, and 5 in a cluster.

Class 1 displays are rare, and very expensive.
Class 2 is what most LCD monitor manufacturers go for, and what they'd usually go against to qualify (within a couple of pixels or so).


A PSP display has a resolution of 480x272, or 130,560 pixels. This means that its display should be perfect always if going by class 2 standards. Now, it's possible that Sony is using Class 3 displays, which allow more faults (or Class 4, even more still), in which case they're always cheaper. But given that most LCD monitors tend to be very good these days, it would mean that Sony's using really really really cheap screens. Potentially not something someone wants to hear after plunking down serious green for their PSP.

Source: http://graphics.tomshardware.com/display/20030319/lcd_pixels-06.html
 

cff

Kilk'dymga'qith laq Ik'vikvi
Thanks for searching for the exact numbers. I was too lazy to do it.
The pixel thing is really a strage problem. I know people that would only buy a TFT that was already used for some days in the shop so that they can verify there that there is no pixel error. I did just demand to test that all WC resolutions work on it :)
 

Worf

Vice Admiral
It's not a strange problem at all. There's a transistor behind every subpixel on a TFT display. And there's always a chance that a transistor doesn't work properly. Now, if we went back a decade, a PSP with a dead pixel would probably be OK (I have a TFT display with 5 bad pixels on a 640x480 screen, but this computer was bought probably 12 years ago, when such technology was still very new - heck it was color, too!), but technology and production processes have improved *immensely* since then (prices of LCD monitors being most evident, with very little drop in quality).

There was a site that had 5 JPEGs that you could put on a memory stick and use it to test your PSP's display before leaving the store to verify the display. Of course, you need to have a MS Duo first and something to write it with first... (I do - my cellphone uses MS Duo cards).
 

Edfilho

Cry some more!
That's why I like CRT monitors so much for desktop uses...
This really looks like sony is using some crappy TFTs. Are there dead pixels in Nintendo handhelds?

BTW, What is the diffference between ALL the MS types? Duo, Pro, Duo Pro...
 

Pedro

Admiral
Yes the Nintendo DS, like any such device, suffers from the issue of dead pixels, however its much rarer and limited to 1 or 2 pixels. Mine is absolutley perfect personally. Nintendo will even replace a DS with only this small number of dead pixels if you ask.

The PSP by comparison is having a MASSIVE problem with dead pixels, and in much greater number. Sony wouldn't replace them at first, and the stores being sold out they simply couldn't anyway (not that they would if they couldn't get their cash back from Sony). Fortuantley it sounds like with enough pressuring sony will actually take your PSP back.
 

Worf

Vice Admiral
Memory Stick - sony's proprietary flash memory format
The Duo is the same thing as the memory stick, except half the length.

Then Sony realized that the MS design didn't allow for memory sizes larger than 128MiB. They couldn't fit a way of doing it that was backwards compatible, so they decided to make the "Pro" version which can go a fair bit larger (and a bit faster). The Duo Pro is just the half-sized version of the Pro cards.

Pro slots can read regular MS and MS Pro. Regular MS slots can only read MS. You can get adapters for the Duo that turn them into regular length MS, ditto for Duo Pros to regular length Pros. There is an adapter that will convert a regular MS to a Duo via a cable and slot available as well.

As for monitors - it really depends what you're doing with it. If you do a lot of text based things, LCDs are far easier on the eyes than CRTs. Graphics design work, CRTs are way easier to calibrate. Gaming is a tossup since modern LCDs are quite good for gaming these days.
 

Penta2

Spaceman
Personally, with a lot of visual disabilities, I am in *love* with LCD. Then again, I can't see depth, so graphics work is a non-issue.

The one problem I have is that my dad dropped my monitor, so it has a crack in the screen. I would appreciate a more...stress-tested monitor. But, hah. It does the job.

And, oh yes, my headphones (my lone sound-output device) just had an earpiece break off at the worst point. GAHHH!
 

Edfilho

Cry some more!
HUm... I work on a Compaq Armada 110, which is kinda old, and there is no love lost between me and this older LCD. OTOH, I worked in a company where they issued me a 19" Sony Trinitron flat CRT, and it was freaking heaven for my eyes...

I really have no experience with the latest LCD monitors, are they really lag free? they usually had this problem with fast moving images... and that would suck for gaming.
 

ChrisReid

Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
Pedro said:
The PSP by comparison is having a MASSIVE problem with dead pixels, and in much greater number. Sony wouldn't replace them at first, and the stores being sold out they simply couldn't anyway (not that they would if they couldn't get their cash back from Sony). Fortuantley it sounds like with enough pressuring sony will actually take your PSP back.
After people started complaining about dead pixels, Sony issues a rosy press release stating that they would fully honor the terms of the included Warranty if PSP owners had any problems. Great for PR. If you go and read your PSP manual (page 13), it says a small number dead pixels are perfectly normal however. :) Nothing really changed.
 

Worf

Vice Admiral
Edfilho said:
HUm... I work on a Compaq Armada 110, which is kinda old, and there is no love lost between me and this older LCD. OTOH, I worked in a company where they issued me a 19" Sony Trinitron flat CRT, and it was freaking heaven for my eyes...

I really have no experience with the latest LCD monitors, are they really lag free? they usually had this problem with fast moving images... and that would suck for gaming.
Basically, check the refresh speed of your monitor. Anything 25ms and slower is junk - it's plainly awful. 16ms is a sweet spot (and is perfect for 60hz refresh video, too - 1/60th of a second is 16.666... ms), and is extremely lag-free. If you want, the latest monitors sport sub-10ms refresh times, with something like 5ms "typical" and 8ms "max" (125FPS to 200FPS). They are *very* nice.

Though, there are still people who claim that 16ms and faster screens are still laggy, but I honestly can't tell the difference (and neither can most people). Luckily, like audiophiles, there will be people who can claim to see the difference. For me, my eyes don't tire so much looking at my LCD monitor as they do with a regular monitor.
 

cff

Kilk'dymga'qith laq Ik'vikvi
Mine does 16ms (real, not claimed) which is enough for me to not notice any blur in FPS games. Pro gamers might disagree however.
In specialized applications (like TFT test programs) you can see the delay pretty good however. Whats stupid is that test like 3D mark are capped at 60fps so its kinda hard to judge how fast the maxhine is if the TFT is holding it back ...

I don't think there is ANY TFT that can do 8 ms max. Some may claim they do, but I don't think it is true. 12 ms ones are there for a long time for example, but in reality they have something like 16 max.
 

Worf

Vice Admiral
There is, actually, 4ms (grey-grey) with 5ms typical - Viewsonic announced a couple earlier last month. Pricing is unknown, though. OTOH, it seems 12ms is slowly making its way into mainstream for monitors.

My monitor (NEC 1760V) is 16ms, but it's split quite oddly - I believe white-to-black is 4ms, and black-to-white is 12ms (giving 16ms when you add it). Scrolling text that's black-on-white (regular text processing) works out quite well, but scrolling white-on-black has a tiny bit of ghosting when scrolling quickly. Though, having used it for probably close to two years now, I'm so used to it, I don't notice.

About my only regret with my monitor is not buying a big enough monitor. Sure it's a 17", and it replaces my old 17" CRT (so it's larger), but still. I lust for Apple's 30" cinema display... (OTOH, that's getting close to the point of "too big")..

ObOnTopic: OK, I tried to buy a PSP in Canada. Before anyone here complains about the lack of value in the "Value Pack", consider yourself lucky to be able to get that. In Canada, it appears Sony Canada decided to send out a very small number of Value Pack only PSPs. Instead, they decided to bundle the majority of PSPs with a game. Not bad an idea, except the Value Pack by itself is $300 (Canadian), a good deal. The Value Pack Bundle (with game) is $350. Effectively, the bundle costs the same as value pack with a game, except you're forced to accept the game. Great if you like it (Gretzky NHL), but if you don't, you're forced to buy it anyways...
 

ChrisReid

Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
Yeah, it's pretty hilarious that Canadians are forced to buy a hockey game with their PSP.
 

TopGun

Vampire Ace
That is kinda Funny, it'll be like someone from the UK being forced to buy a Football game with their PSP
 

TheRedDuke

Spaceman
Worf, is it actually bundled together by Sony like that, or is it done by the retailer? Right now there aren't too many retailers in the States that are selling the PSP without a game. EB, Gamestop, Circuit City, Amazon, even Walmart are all selling their own "bundles" with games and accessories. Coincidentally, retailers like Best Buy are sold through on their standalone units.
 
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