Progress Update

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
Death said:
I'm glad to hear missile reloads are out of the question, though.
Strictly speaking, Privateer already had missile reloads - presumably, that's the basic difference between firing missiles from a hardpoint, and from a launcher.
 

Ijuin

Admiral
Well, by "reload" I did not mean that you could mount the missiles in-flight. What I meant was this: Say you land at base X, and base X refuels your ship but does NOT sell missiles. In that case, you would be able to unload the missiles from your hold and mount them--but ONLY while you are landed. This would only have value when you are landed at a location that does not supply the desired missile type.

Anyway, I do like the idea of quick-fix spare parts that are only good for a little while--you will still have to pay full price to repair/replace the component the next time you land, but the repairs would allow you to continue functioning until then (maybe with reduced efficiency--like less engine speed, occasional gun misfires, less reactor power, longer wait time between when you start a jump and when you jump out, etc.).
 

Sonic TH

Spaceman
Well first off I don't see how hiring a space tanker to refuel from or being able to radio a repair ship whenever you want is better then having spare parts in your hold. Of course maybe they didn't have advanced repair droids back in that time and you'd have to land somewhere first, in which case you could still get stuck.

Secondly you might wanna think about how big the parts are.

While we're on the subject, one thing that always bugged me about privateer was your cargo never took any damage, if you can lose your jumpdrive, shields, thrusters and armor etc, why doesn't the cargo get damaged in the process?

But if you don't want to hear ideas like oh "landing on carriers" or "having an apartment", or have new gameplay like having hiring a co-pilot, then I'll just leave you to it.

Come to think of it I don't see why Privateer 2 even had any new ships or weapons, they should have just made a copy of the first privateer in another sector...

As for me I only worry about it becoming too easy, as long as there are rules and I still have to work at it, I don't mind new things if they make sense but that's just me.
 

ChrisReid

Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
Sonic TH said:
But if you don't want to hear ideas like oh "landing on carriers" or "having an apartment", or have new gameplay like having hiring a co-pilot, then I'll just leave you to it.

Come to think of it I don't see why Privateer 2 even had any new ships or weapons, they should have just made a copy of the first privateer in another sector...

What the hell are you talking about? Pioneer is full of new stuff, but it's trying to respect the original Privateer as much as possible.
 

Ijuin

Admiral
He's being sarcastic. ^_^

About the spare parts taking up space in your hold--that's a good point. A full set of parts should probably take up like half of your cargo space if you are flying a Phalanx or Hydra, which means less space for cargo.

As for cargo taking damage, I always thought the cargo hold was pressurized (in other words, inside your ship). That would mean that you would have to have a hull breach before the cargo would be damaged. On the other hand, what we have seen of Pioneer ships seems to indicate that they also use cargo canisters that fit into external mounts on your spacecraft.
 

NinjaLA

Alex Von T.
it looks to me like all the cargo in privateer was transported in destruction proof-vaacuum safes that float around after entire vessels are destroyed.. somethink like a cargo containter that is built like an aircraft blackbox. So its not unreasonable to assume the cargo survives.
 

Dyret

Super Carrot!
Ijuin said:
He's being sarcastic. ^_^

I'm sure Chris got that part. The sarcasm doesn't change that Sonic TH's comment was pointless slightly offensive, maybe it even makes it more so.:(
 

ChrisReid

Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
Ijuin said:
He's being sarcastic. ^_^

Obviously, and disingenuously so.

The project lead here is giving valid reasons for what he is and isn't including in his project. The sarcasm and passive aggressive junk is completely unjustified.
 

Howard Day

Random art guy.
Well first off I don't see how hiring a space tanker to refuel from or being able to radio a repair ship whenever you want is better then having spare parts in your hold. Of course maybe they didn't have advanced repair droids back in that time and you'd have to land somewhere first, in which case you could still get stuck.
Well, first off, hiring a cargo ship to haul goods for you is an essential part of Privateer 2. Allowing you to do the same with fuel is a natural extension of this. I think I explained that there is currently no plan to add any sort of interstellar tow-truck service. It's just something we may toy with - if there's a need for it, and if it can be made to seem logical and not ridiculous. At this point, the more likely solution is to have a sort of "emergency repair kit" that consists of some spare parts. If you get stranded, or disabled, this will give you a chance to continue on. One more jump outta the jump-drive. Even so - this is just an idea - one that admittedly has no basis that I know of in the WC universe. The only way we can put it in is if it fits into what we know, and doesn't give the player a advantage noone else has. Maybe one way to guarantee this is to make them fantastically expensive. Maybe you'll have a choice of buying two new FF missiles or an emergency repair kit. You go for the missiles, right? You may end up regretting that later.
Anyhow, I'm just trying to demonstrate that the idea is reasonable. Sometimes, even unreasonable ideas can have some merit when they're tweaked about enough. Let me give you an example: Cloaking devices.
Originally Cloaks are something a great many people wanted to see in this game. Unforunately, given the timeline in which the game takes place, these devices are simply not available to be added to the players repertoire. So we thought about it a bit, and came up with an idea that could allow the basic functionality, and be completely reasonable in the process.

You can power down your ship.

In doing so, you become invisible to radar at anything but the closest range. You're still completely visible to the naked eye, but if you are trying to set up an ambush, you'll likely be doing it where there's some natural cover (asteroid belt, nebula, small moon...whatever you can find, really) The trade-off for this vaunted invisiblity is that when you want to come back on line, it takes a few seconds to get your powerplant back up. In this process, the radars of the other ships will begin see you, thus giving them some time - if they're alert - to come about.
The other big issue is if you get caught before you have a chance to power up, you're pretty much out of luck. You'll have no shields, not a single weapon available to you.

So - as you can see - even the most ridiculous idea can have merit.


While we're on the subject, one thing that always bugged me about privateer was your cargo never took any damage, if you can lose your jumpdrive, shields, thrusters and armor etc, why doesn't the cargo get damaged in the process?
While the idea of cargo taking damage may sound like a good one, I don't see how it could be of benefit to the gameplay. Being responsible for the ship's damage seems to be a big enough drain on the players resources. How do you handle damaged goods? A failed mission? Naw, this is something that adds an uneeded level of complexity and frustration. Straight cargo runs are bad enough right now - no need to make them worse. :D


But if you don't want to hear ideas like oh "landing on carriers" or "having an apartment", or have new gameplay like having hiring a co-pilot, then I'll just leave you to it.
Okay. this is kind of what I was talking about earlier. Why would you land on a carrier? You think the Tiger's Claw was going to just let anyone land on the flight deck? I seriously doubt it. There would need to be a very, very good reason for this to happen, and unless you're directly working for the military - and Confed at that - I don't see how this would come about.
Same thing with the Apartment idea. Why? Your home is your ship. That's where you sleep. It's your place of residence. There's no need to have an apartment - when would you ever visit? There's nothing particuarly intriguing about this idea...it seems like a lot of work so the player can come back once every 20-30 missions and do what? Check his e-mail?
Finally - we do allow you to hire a co-pilot. It's pretty self-explainitory why we'd do this. Every ship save one had a second seat in Privateer. That's gotta tell you something. :D The other cool part about this is that the co-pilot allows us to have a narrator for information that the player needs to hear. This is a powerful, powerful thing.


Come to think of it I don't see why Privateer 2 even had any new ships or weapons, they should have just made a copy of the first privateer in another sector...
I dunno. I had a lot of fun with Privateer 2. Nothing wrong with it. At least nothing that nostalgia hasn't neatly glossed over with time.

About the spare parts taking up space in your hold--that's a good point. A full set of parts should probably take up like half of your cargo space if you are flying a Phalanx or Hydra, which means less space for cargo.
The emergency kit would probably take up some room. Keep in mind that we're not talking about a complete replacement part set here - just enough spare parts to get you one more jump outta the drive. It wouldn't take up much space at all.

As for cargo taking damage, I always thought the cargo hold was pressurized (in other words, inside your ship). That would mean that you would have to have a hull breach before the cargo would be damaged. On the other hand, what we have seen of Pioneer ships seems to indicate that they also use cargo canisters that fit into external mounts on your spacecraft.
Well, the pirate Bandits have external cargo mounts. That's just because they're so small - it doesn't have room for more than an engine, pilot, and a couple of guns. All the other ships I can think of carry the cargo inside the hull.

Anyhow - thanks for all the feedback guys. I hope to have something new to show here this weekend.
 

Ijuin

Admiral
Could the repairs kit be used for other failed systems besides the jump drive? For example, say your main engines or maneuvering thrusters got blown up. Maybe the repair kit would let them function at half capacity until your next landing? I'd figure that the repair kit would be a consumable item, and maybe cost a thousand credits each and take up ten units of cargo space (based on the Privateer price scales and the idea that non-freighters have 30-50 cargo space)
 

Howard Day

Random art guy.
It's a thought - the down side would be that the item would still need to be completely repaired. I this this as having limited applications, though - core stuff, Shields, engines, and the jump drive would be the only things affected. Weapons and the like should not be fixable on the run.
 

Sonic TH

Spaceman
Well yes I was being sarcastic, I thought, given some restraint a critical spare part would be reasonable. I also found it odd that people wouldn't want new gameplay in a new game. Granted you do have to be true to privateer but that doesn't completely tie your hands either. I mean if you just wanna play privateer again it's still there.

Sorry I just felt kinda insulted when IMHO silly ideas like having an apartment or calling a tow truck are discussed but a reasonable one is poo poo'ed right off that bat and called "fanboyism". The idea for spare parts was really just thinking out loud. I couldn't see the point of programming all that logic about trade routes and comms into the game when just having a "spare tire" would be so much more simple, I never expected or wanted it either way.

In any case never mind.

Well, first off, hiring a cargo ship to haul goods for you is an essential part of Privateer 2. Allowing you to do the same with fuel is a natural extension of this.

As for me I really disliked hiring a cargo ship in privateer 2, truth be told it wasn't as good for me as the first one but I still liked it alot. I'd rather at least have the option to run a cargo mission using only my own hold. Main reason being, in order to trade in Privateer 2 you had to be on an endless escort mission with an AI that often ending up shooting you down while you where saving him. Was handy to use him as an escort on missions where you got ambushed though.

But again that's just an opinion and not a demand or expectation. What you do with it is your own business.
 

t.c.cgi

Vice Admiral
This could also be another function of the co-pilot: send him to go fix the ship while you fly. He'll use up a kit fixing the jump drive, and take some time like the repair bot.
 

Cargoman

Spaceman
I belive that an emergency repair kit makes perfect sense .
It should be completely consumed in use , and the damaged system would
still need to be replaced at the first chance . I'm thinking in automobile terms
of using panty hose as a serpentine belt , or a tire patch and duct tape to
plug an oil pan leak . It works and gets you back to civilazation , but does
not by any means mean the vechicle is repaired . Maybe the stop gap fix
actually does more damage to the "repaired" item .
 

ChrisReid

Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
Sonic TH said:
Well yes I was being sarcastic, I thought, given some restraint a critical spare part would be reasonable. I also found it odd that people wouldn't want new gameplay in a new game.

This is what I'm talking about. I don't know how anyone could make that comment with a straight face. Do you think anyone is shooting something down because they don't want to consider new gameplay elements? That's ridiculous. Obviously the real reason is that we doubt whether the gameplay mechanics in question are reasonable.
 

Ijuin

Admiral
I agree with Howard and Cargoman. The repair kit should allow you to function at a reduced capacity (for example, half engine speed, half shields, half turning rate, etc.) until you can land and repair it properly. It would NOT allow you to restore full capacity to a destroyed system, only partial capacity.
 

BradMick

Vice Admiral
I have a sec to chime in on this. The original deal was, you either hired yourself a mechanic and he fixes your stuff up, or you buy a droid. each has their pro's and cons.

the mechanic can do a lot more than the droid, but you have to pay him a salary. the droid is faster, but isn't as capable as a human, but you dont have to pay him. repair packs is to much like the repair deals from Freelancer, unless i missed a big part of what it is...which very well may be the case here (as i was just glancing to try and catch up) either way.

as for the specs, they'll be fairly high end, or should be.

anyway, folks need the computer, later!
 

Ijuin

Admiral
Meh, as long as a a 64 MB video card and 512 MB of RAM on a 2.0 Gigahertz machine can run it you shouldn't have too many people complaining about their systems being too old for it.
 

PopsiclePete

Mission programmer
Ijuin said:
Meh, as long as a a 64 MB video card and 512 MB of RAM on a 2.0 Gigahertz machine can run it you shouldn't have too many people complaining about their systems being too old for it.
I would :p I own an Athlon 800 + 32 Mb GeForce2MX...
 
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