PiArmada

scheherazade

Rear Admiral
are you suggesting that the turn-based portion be moved to an RTS style, or the action portion be turned to an RTS style (or either/both)?

IMHO you *could* do both reasonably well.

turn based change :
move the turn based to real time, but keep it map-graphics.
have the ability to zoom in and micro manage in an RTS view.
pause it at combat, and goto the combat mode. (so you don't have to manage more than one sector under combat at any one time? could leave it unpaused just as well)

combat change :
in combat mode, have the option to leave your ship and goto a 'god view', where you control the targets and attack styles of your ships.

would be neat. esp as an option. turn based is always nice because you can play it while doing other things.

if the comnat had an rts mode where it could be autonomous, then that would also let you just 'let shit go down' without interfering. so you can play and read websites like the cic while you're at it! ;P

-scheherazade
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
ZOmegaZ said:
All this over two perfectly servicable flight engines? Y'all are silly.
Hehe, you have to understand, this crazy debate had very, very little to do with your project - PiArmada was just what got people started on comparing the two engines :p.

(and of course, the debate itself had very little to do with the capabilities of the two engines, sadly enough)

FWIW, Vega Strike can also be extended to be a Homeworld-like engine. How'd you like THAT in Armada? :)
Hmm... eh, well, I wouldn't, personally :p. I think Armada's interface is in many ways outdated and could be improved... but I don't think displaying ships and planets in 3d would actually be an improvement. WC has a long tradition (starting with WC1!) of using symbollic 2d maps with 2d iconography to depict 3d space. Personally, I love this - the simplicity of little ship icons on top of circles connected with lines is much, much better than any 3d depiction of the same thing. It looks better, is more stylish, and ultimately also much clearer to read - the only thing that 3d added to strategy games is confusion and infernally-clunky camera systems.
 

ZOmegaZ

Rear Admiral
Homeworld actually had an extremely good camera system, very intuitive. And I'm not proposing changing the Armada interface. When I'm done, I want a game that, at least in mechanics, is very similar to the original Armada, and we're well on our way to that. But once that's done (or before, if anyone else would care to start it), I'd like to take that game and branch it into a couple other projects. One is an extended version of Armada, covering the entire Kilrathi war. Coming up with the game dynamics on that would be a trick, but technically it shouldn't be that hard. Real fleets, tech research, every ship ever, the works. The second isn't necessarily a wing commander project, though. I'd like to see a multiplayer strategy game where people can play different parts. One guy could be a fleet commander with a Homeworld-style interface, and several others could be fighter pilots in the same battle. A third, overall strategic layer could also be added. It'd make for an interesting game, and I think Piarmada would be well-positioned to spin off into it.
 

scheherazade

Rear Admiral
I like those ideas.

here's some more.

a while back with the mmorpg concept for wcu, we were thinking that some players could play as commanders.

they would basically use the map, and info about what is where, to play an armada sort of game.

(undetermined aspect) : commander would have sole power of a particular system or area, or he would share it with people, or all would share power over all areas, or people would suggest actions and all would vote on them, etc.

they could essentially create real time missions for both players and for the AI military component (and for any enlisted players).

possibly battle commanders could sit in a carrier, or flagship, and direct the AI fighters to attack certain ships, or defend, etc.

enlisted players who do well could become a wing leader (with an AI squad, flight combat).

the top 25% would have the option to act as a battle commander (would be located within the attack fleet. death to their commaned ship means no more command ability. AI is FFA from there on. retreats afterwards. new command ship assigned after retreat. first come first serve for any one battle. one player for command, they play like a strategy game)

the top 25% of those would have the option to be a sector commander (multiple commanders using votes, they would direct general orders for AI fleets (they suggest), since they have info about enemy presence in their sector. they would be located at the nearest military base. this base would serve some sectors around it. if this base dies, no enemy info is available in that area.)

and top 25% of those to be a world commander (multiple commanders using votes, they have info about enemy presence globally. located at the main fed base. if this base dies, no enemy info is available.)

(by info, i would say things like 'possible radio transmission', or 'scout reports', etc)

privateers could have something similar.
most proifitable 25% for any given week could be shipping lane operators (direct militia to patrol some areas, send militia to distress calls)

best 25% of those (by some method of measurement...) could be trade location commanders (they would post material demands for their system. there could be a time based consumption that they have to upkeep, and $ made per export that pays for it.)

best 25% of those could be sector managers. they could take product orders.
I.E. a base sells ships. but they come from a factory, that needs ore delivery, that needs mining shipments.

all this could be controlled by AI if there is no player interested. but it would be a really neat strategy element for whoever feels like getting involved. you could play like sort of like sim city with the economy, or like an RTS.

the higher up ranks are neat because they are on such a high level that there is little time constraint. you could for example, command a sector while just online chatting.

in any case, this would tie in to armada's overview scheme very well.

-scheherazade
 

Quarto

Unknown Enemy
ZOmegaZ said:
Homeworld actually had an extremely good camera system, very intuitive. And I'm not proposing changing the Armada interface. When I'm done, I want a game that, at least in mechanics, is very similar to the original Armada, and we're well on our way to that. But once that's done (or before, if anyone else would care to start it), I'd like to take that game and branch it into a couple other projects. One is an extended version of Armada, covering the entire Kilrathi war. Coming up with the game dynamics on that would be a trick, but technically it shouldn't be that hard. Real fleets, tech research, every ship ever, the works.
Sounds neat, but in that case I've got a challenge for you - if you'd like to do an interesting take on Armada, try doing it as a military strategy. That is to say, put the player in the shoes of an Admiral - don't make him build ships or research technologies, instead force him to do the best he can with the forces he's got at hand, and with the occasional political squabble for new ships. I mean, if you're playing, say, Admiral Terrell, you shouldn't concern yourself with building shipyards and new carriers - instead, your task should revolve around fulfilling the objectives set by High Command, and begging them for additional ships when necessary.

I mean, strategy games with tech trees and all that are fun... but there's far too many of them. And wouldn't it be great to have a WC strategy game where the loss of a destroyer is actually a problem to worry about, instead of merely making the player think "oh, better build a new destroyer"?
 

scheherazade

Rear Admiral
that would be a good way to go about it too.

something like "ground control".

maybe let there be production and research (or time based technology availability), but NOT under your control.

-scheherazade
 

hurleybird

Rear Admiral
Sounds like Dominion Wars... one of the worst games ever made.

In DW, they pretty much took out every strategy element but combat. of course, it was also a star trek game, and that somehow has a way of ruining a would-be good game.
 

Flex

Spaceman
Personally, I always loved Star Wars Rebellion (was I the only one?) It had a steep learning curve, but I could spend hours building my empire and blasting apart the other. If such a game could be translated into Wing Commander, minus some of the cheesy things added for Star Wars sake, I think it would be a excellent game.

This is hardly a suggestion though-- I would think such a project would be huge. I don't know how to mod games, or even create them, but the thought of a "Wing Commander Rebellion" always holds that giddy place in my heart.
 

ZOmegaZ

Rear Admiral
Hehehe. Actually, a good bit of the impetus for this project was the fact that there were three games I always loved but thought needed to be improved: Wing Commander Armada, Birth of the Federation, and Star Wars Rebellion.
 

PANI

Spaceman
i've just played, drawing another interface..

something like this would look nice for me.... (WC3 Timeline) :)



picture dosn't look so pretty....
 

ZOmegaZ

Rear Admiral
Oh yes, a LOT of enhancements have been done. We're waiting on a gauntlet mission right now, real life is interfering, as always. I don't think it'll be too much longer before we have .09 ready to roll. I'm not home right now, so I can't pull up the entire list, but we have improved strategic AI, a vastly improved flight engine, totally rewritten combat code, a menu system, some new graphics, and new keyboard shortcuts are the features that come to mind right now. Hopefully gauntlet will be there as well. Oh, and you can choose what ship you want to fly before battle now, or select auto-combat. Basically, .08 was .07 with a flight engine hacked in. This is much, much cleaner.
 
Hey guys... I'm the kitty who has to do the gauntlet. I expected to be done by the end of January but, well, school and work. On the plus side, one of my profs is interested in the project and has made sure I get a bit of credit for it, so I can put some more time in it.

Zomega, can you send me the AI? I guess it's based off mine, if so, I hope it was of some use. I'd like to tweak it a bit though! You have my mail right?
 

ZOmegaZ

Rear Admiral
No release date yet. Sorry, gauntlet is taking a while. It'll get there.

My only guess is about the runtime errors is that the video card is causing issues, the only time I've had anything like that was on my laptop with an integrated Twister S3 chip. Unfortunately, the error message is so nondescript that it's hard to debug beyond that. I'll try to include a config file in the next version so you can start in windowed mode, that fixed it for me.
 
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