philosophic problem with Jump Points

BradMick

Vice Admiral
yes.

confed doctrine typically calls for (can't remember the exact time) minute or so interval between jumps so a ship can clear the point. the reason being is that emergence points are random, and a ship may materialiaze in the same place as another....nice fireworks ensue.

also, if a ship approaches a jump to fast it can tear itself apart, half stays behind the bow comes out the other side.
 

ricree101

Spaceman
If the ships come one at a time, shouldn't it be possible to control a jump point easily with even a relatively small fleet. With a reasonably equiped fleet you would always have numerical superiority whenever there was an attack. How was this problem dealt with.
 
Well, that's bsaically what they do in the movie. What I would do is to send a small squadron of fighter-bombers the "long" way around, come in from another jump point, and do a torpedo run on the guarding ships -- even if it does not succeed, it should be enough to cause them to scatter enough for my fleet to go through. Timing is very critical though since there is no communication across the jump point.

(Hey, could be a cool mission!)
 

BradMick

Vice Admiral
you approach the jump point at a fairly high velocity so that you exit the point with a half decent vector, by the time the pickets can react, you're through. Also, there aren't really enough ships to put a 'small fleet' at every jump point. the main forces are going to be located in the primary battle zones to try and hold things down. at most there will be a space station in the system, or a picket ship meant to be a tripwire. Listening posts, etc..etc. They kilrathi actually start loosing pretty bad prior to the Battle of Earth because humanity is able to sneak their light carriers back behind the lines like Tarawa did at Vukar Tag. Thats why they sued for the armistice. This (at least in my mind) would indicate that the cats (and even humanity couldn't) cover jump points like your thinking.

another point too. The only time i would ever have my force positioned close to a jump point is when i know an attack is coming. For the most part a fleet that isn't directly engaged is going to be around an orbital facility of some sort, save on engine time and all that.

edit:

also, its standard operating procedure to deploy cruisers and destroyers and frigates and stuff first, to pull away the enemy force/tie them up for the carriers to come through.

edit 2:

the velocity thing, there is a 'safe' quick speed to hit the jump. i'm not sure what it is, but there is a maximum allowable to go through which preserves a significant vector for exit. i know kruger is pretty famous for it. he makes high speed (outside the regs high speed) jumps to quickly close distances, he did it at the battle of Earth. Also, Ragark had deployed his forces around the jump point which the Mjolnir (cat super carrier, bhantkara class) was going to take to escape. Kruger jumps in at a high speed and with enough vector to get away from the jump point unscathed. (fromt he novels Fleet Action and False Colors)
 

motti

Spaceman
Yes, but this would result in a constant battle for jump nodes and we haven't seen much of it in Wing Commander, so I think there is still another way that would allow battles spanning a system without the opposite party seeing one. Otherwise the idea behind Wing Commander would be entirely flawed with having to make a run for several nav points to extend the range of scanners, because all system have jump nodes in close vicinity as the Gemini sector...
 

BradMick

Vice Admiral
i don't see how. in wing 3 the victory slipped into systems with relative ease. also, at Locanda i don't think either side knew where each other was. Typically battles revolved around a world, or some such. The battle of sirius wasn't fought right up on the jump node.

The way its been done and described in the books (how i've picked up on it anyway) is that both sides jump in, but neither knows where the other is. They may know 'hey, they jumped in!' but the vast distances of interplanetary space don't make it possible to quick run to where the enemy is. That's why the patrols and all that are necessary. The games present a really small version of the larger universe. It takes hours to cross a system in the books. To speed that up ships have to go scoops closed to speed things up. The jump nodes typically aren't blockaded. I wouldn't park my stuff around a jump point, no way. I'd park myself somewhere in the system and lie in wait, i'd keep an eye on where the enemy comes, but i'd pick my time and place for a battle. The jump point wouldn't be it.
 

warzog

Spaceman
motti said:
Where in hell would be the sense in leading a war like this, if you are able to close down a jump node by surrounding it with ships and lasers?
Back when Wing Commander first came out, a friend, who was in love with the first few Wing Commander games, talked me into playing a few missions.
I recall several missions where I had to guard jumpholes, scan ships, and prevent Privateer's from escaping through the jumpholes.
Well...
I never could!
Needless to say, I never purchased WC 1/2, or Armada.
I remember telling my friend that I'd buy a Wing Commander game when I could be the Privateer!
And I've been a Wing Commander fan ever SINCE Privateer came out!
 

BradMick

Vice Admiral
I forgot to add this too, a ship thats sitting stopped at a jump point is pretty much a dead ship. It needs some sort of vector to manuver and fight properly. Ships which come through the point are going to have a slight advantage over anything thats parked, as they'll come through at an unknown point and already be moving away from the intended enemy 'choke' point. the ships that will are able to move will be at an advantage, be able to put some distance between themselves and the jump point to reorganize for an effective attack.
 
What if I build a big steel mesh (like a cube made of girders) and put it at the jump point? To the very least, if someone jumps in it'll explode and act like a f*in huge shrapnel bomb.
 

Okona

Spaceman
How about that:

Only smaller ships need to have a distinct jump point. Bigger ships would be able to form a jump point inside a system wherever it wants and connect it to any system the outgoing system is connected to.

I think this could still be in canon with the normal Wing Commander Universe (at least the games). There is even one example in Privateer, that this might be possible, remember the steltek fighter ship? It jumped, where there was no jump bubble visible. (Of course it was steltek technology, but proves the point (-: )


Well the truth is, privateer was designed to be played with small ships travelling through its universe while the rest of the WC games you travelled on a carrier.
I think by having bigger ships be able to form their own jump point we can unite these two principles. (Of course that was steltek technology, but it shows that it is possible)
 

BradMick

Vice Admiral
the morvan (think thats right) hopper drive pretty much did that, it had an extremely limited range, long recharge time, and couldn't be operated inside the gravity well of a star system. the pilgrims were actually planning on using it as a weapon, the outfitted a stolen concordia super cruiser with some kind of 'doomsday' hopper drive and were planning on destroying worlds with it. Pilgrim Stars is where that last bit comes from, and thent he TCH for the hopper drive.
 

motti

Spaceman
That'd be a solution, because otherwise to built a WC One Campaign would require a whole new set of maps that are immensely huge!
 
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