Panther and Hawk's morale in WC4 : An attempt at a more detailed analysis

Sharpshooter

Rear Admiral
Hello everyone!

So I've been replaying Wing Commander 4 (...again) and I was wondering how the game's programming handles Panther and Hawk's morale. It turns out that in the save files, Panther's morale is stored at 0x600 and Hawk's morale is stored at 0x5fe.

After some testing, it appears that every Panther/Hawk choice works exactly as intended. It is also true that a tie between Panther's morale and Hawk's morale gives you the good ending. For the record :

Bandit LOAF said:
As already mentioned, the final cutscene is based on whose morale is highest (Hawk or Panther). It's actually quite a bit more complex than any one decision. There are three major decisions between the two, which either give +1 Panther/-1 Hawk or +1 Hawk/-1Panther:

Hawk and Panther are arguing on the bridge: "There's always hope" vs. "We die trying"
Speradon or Circe: "Panther's right" vs. "Hawk's right."
Bypass or destroy Ella: "Panther's right, we can't kill civilians" vs. "Hawk's right, this is war"

Each character also has two conversations where you can effect *only* their morale:

Panther-
Panther at the bar: "She's dreaming" / "You'd think..."
Catscratch and Panther talking about fighting the Kilrathi: "Straighten this kid out" / "Do I look like I have all the answers?"

Hawk-
Did you enjoy fighting the Kilrathi?: "Gotta admit, I did" / "This guy is bloodthirsty"
Argument about the Kilrathi: "He's missing the point" / "Bitter guy"

... then, depending on which system you go to (Circe or Speradon), you get a second point to add or remove from the person you supported. These effect only the person you previously sided with (so they can either negate or double the number of points added to your choice).

However, unlike what one might think, it would seem that Panther and Hawk do not, in fact, start at 0 morale. They both start at 5 morale. Also, no matter how hard you try, you cannot get the good ending if you side with Hawk for all of the "big three" :

Orestes (Panther) "Yeah... You'd think" - Panther 6, Hawk 5
Orestes (Hawk) "This guy is bloodthirsty" - Panther 6, Hawk 4
Pasqual (Hawk) "Straighten this kid out" - Panther 7, Hawk 4
Pasqual (Hawk) "Bitter guy" - Panther 7, Hawk 3
Peleus (Panther and Hawk, Circe or Speradon choice) "Hawk's right" - Panther 6, Hawk 4
(Speradon, Hawk) "What a whiner" - Panther 6, Hawk 3
(Speradon, Panther and Hawk) "We die trying" - Panther 5, Hawk 4
(Callimachus, Sneak by Ella or Nuke Ella) "Hawk's right, this is war" - Panther 4, Hawk 5

Of course, this also means that you cannot get the "evil" ending if you side with Panther for all of the "big three".

Interestingly enough, the first two choices for Hawk (in Orestes and Pasqual) can be skipped. In that case, Hawk's morale will be unaffected after the choice you choose to skip.

Panther and Hawk's morale seems to affect how they much damage they do not mind taking before ejecting, so theoretically, you should try to keep it as high as possible for both of them.

And now, as an example, here are a few suggestions for some paths you could take. Bear in mind I've never actually tested some of these, but I'm fairly sure they would work regardless.

"Trying to stick to the novel" path : In this path, you will stay with Confed at the beginning of the game, as well as go to Speradon and refuse to use the Flash-Pak on Ella. You will get the good ending.

Panther 5, Hawk 5
Stay with Confed
"Straighten this kid out" - Panther 6, Hawk 5
"He's missing the point..." - Panther 6, Hawk 6
"Hawk's right" - Panther 5, Hawk 7
"Time to be a captain" - Panther 5, Hawk 8
"There's always hope" - Panther 6, Hawk 7
"Panther's right, we can't kill civilians" - Panther 7, Hawk 6


"Mostly good" path : This is my favorite path. You defect and agree with Panther on most choices except for Speradon, while keeping Hawk's morale as high as possible. You get the good ending.

Panther 5, Hawk 5
Defect to the Border Worlds
"Yeah... You'd think" - Panther 6, Hawk 5
"Gotta admit. I did." - Panther 6, Hawk 6
"Straighten this kid out" - Panther 7, Hawk 6
"He's missing the point..." - Panther 7, Hawk 7
"Hawk's right" - Panther 6, Hawk 8
"Time to be a captain" - Panther 6, Hawk 9
"There's always hope" - Panther 7, Hawk 8
"Panther's right, we can't kill civilians" - Panther 8, Hawk 7


"Mostly morally questionable" path : Another favorite of mine, on this path you pick the major "evil" choices and get the "evil" ending, while going to Circe.

Panther 5, Hawk 5
Stay with Confed
"Straighten this kid out" - Panther 6, Hawk 5
"He's missing the point..." - Panther 6, Hawk 6
"Panther's right" - Panther 7, Hawk 5
"Tempting, but I can't let that happen" - Panther 8, Hawk 5
"We die trying" - Panther 7, Hawk 6
"Hawk's right, this is war" - Panther 6, Hawk 7


"Easy peasy" path : One of the easiest paths you can take, you will defect, go to Speradon for the nifty rewards, skip the difficult Sneak by Ella mission, and still get the good ending. Pretty boring, actually.

Panther 5, Hawk 5
Defect to the Border Worlds
"Yeah... You'd think" - Panther 6, Hawk 5
"This guy is bloodthirsty" - Panther 6, Hawk 4
"Straighten this kid out" - Panther 7, Hawk 4
Skip Hawk choice in the Pasqual system - Panther 7, Hawk 4
"Hawk's right" - Panther 6, Hawk 5
"Time to be a captain" - Panther 6, Hawk 6
"There's always hope" - Panther 7, Hawk 5
"Hawk's right, this is war" - Panther 6, Hawk 6


"Karma Houdini"/"Speedrun" path : On this path you will pick all of the major "bad" choices... And get the good ending anyway. Might be even easier than the "Easy peasy" path for some people. Actually shorter, too.

Panther 5, Hawk 5
Stay with Confed
"Straighten this kid out" - Panther 6, Hawk 5
Skip Hawk choice in the Pasqual system - Panther 6, Hawk 5
"Hawk's right" - Panther 5, Hawk 6
"What a whiner" - Panther 5, Hawk 5
"There's always hope" - Panther 6, Hawk 4
"Hawk's right, this is war" - Panther 5, Hawk 5


"The evil within" path : The opposite of the "Karma Houdini" path, you will be picking all of the major "good" choices and get the "evil" ending. I have no idea why you would want to do that, but here you go.

Panther 5, Hawk 5
Defect to the Border Worlds
"She's dreaming" - Panther 4, Hawk 5
"Gotta admit. I did." - Panther 4, Hawk 6
"Straighten this kid out" - Panther 5, Hawk 6
"He's missing the point..." - Panther 5, Hawk 7
"Panther's right" - Panther 6, Hawk 6
"Maniac's on his own" - Panther 5, Hawk 6
"We die trying" - Panther 4, Hawk 7
"Panther's right, we can't kill civilians" - Panther 5, Hawk 6


"Fully good"/"Panther's biggest fan" path : Defect and side with Panther at every opportunity (and never side with Hawk). Not recommended if you like having Hawk as your wingman. It's been a while since I last did this one, so technically I'll admit I'm not 100% sure whether Hawk's morale can actually go below 1. Good ending, obviously.

Panther 5, Hawk 5
Defect to the Border Worlds
"Yeah... You'd think" - Panther 6, Hawk 5
"This guy is bloodthirsty" - Panther 6, Hawk 4
"Straighten this kid out" - Panther 7, Hawk 4
"Bitter guy" - Panther 7, Hawk 3
"Panther's's right" - Panther 8, Hawk 2
"Time to be a captain" - Panther 9, Hawk 2
"There's always hope" - Panther 10, Hawk 1
"Panther's right, we can't kill civilians" - Panther 11, Hawk 0


"Fully evil" path : Stay with Confed and side with Hawk at every opportunity afterwards (and never side with Panther). Not recommended if you like having Panther as your ally. Evil ending, obviously.

Panther 5, Hawk 5
Stay with Confed
"Do I look like I have all the answers?" - Panther 4, Hawk 5
"He's missing the point..." - Panther 4, Hawk 6
"Hawk's right" - Panther 3, Hawk 7
"Time to be a captain" - Panther 3, Hawk 8
"We die trying" - Panther 2, Hawk 9
"Hawk's right, this is war" - Panther 1, Hawk 10


"Hawk's biggest fan" path : Defect and side with Hawk at every opportunity (and never side with Panther). Also evil ending (duh). Not recommended if you like having Panther as your ally. Again, not wholly sure whether Panther's morale can actually go below 1.

Panther 5, Hawk 5
Defect to the Border Worlds
"She's dreaming" - Panther 4, Hawk 5
"Gotta admit. I did." - Panther 4, Hawk 6
"Do I look like I have all the answers?" - Panther 3, Hawk 6
"He's missing the point..." - Panther 3, Hawk 7
"Hawk's right" - Panther 2, Hawk 8
"Time to be a captain" - Panther 2, Hawk 9
"We die trying" - Panther 1, Hawk 10
"Hawk's right, this is war" - Panther 0, Hawk 11

(Note : As usual, I used the original version of WC4 - the English PC version with 6 CDs)

EDIT : To clarify, "the big three" above refers to the three choices that give +1 to Panther and -1 to Hawk, or -1 to Panther and +1 to Hawk (see the quoted message for this). As to what I mean by "major good/bad choices", this refers to the following choices :

1) Defecting (which, as far as I know, is more commonly seen as "good" even if it doesn't affect the ending directly) or staying with Confed (the "bad" choice);
2) Choosing Circe ("good") or Speradon ("bad"),
and
3) Choosing to do Sneak by Ella ("good") or choosing to use the Flash-Pak on Ella ("bad").
 
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Amazing work! With your permission I'll turn this into a front page update, it's really fascinating.

If you're up for it, I'd love to learn more about how the Wing Commander 3 morale actually works too. There's SOMETHING that impacts it differently than is described in the script...
 
Thank you so much!

You have my permission and at some point I'd like to work on the Wing Commander 3 morale points as well. Right now I'm happy to report that I found a very old Privateer project of mine on an old computer. 13 years ago I sent you an archive containing nearly all of the in-flight speech for Privateer and Righteous Fire (I believe only "now entering an automatic landing zone" was missing). Back then you told me uploading it shouldn't be a legal issue, but I don't believe it was ever uploaded, unless I missed something? Would you still be interested in hosting this? I would likely include the remaining sounds stored in PRIV.TRE and RF.TRE as well (mostly gun sounds, most likely?) , although I'm not sure these days I would have the time needed to sort out these remaining sounds.

EDIT : I'd like to take a look at Catscratch's (and Maniac's ?) morale in WC4 at some point, as well.
 
You have my permission and at some point I'd like to work on the Wing Commander 3 morale points as well. Right now I'm happy to report that I found a very old Privateer project of mine on an old computer. 13 years ago I sent you an archive containing nearly all of the in-flight speech for Privateer and Righteous Fire (I believe only "now entering an automatic landing zone" was missing). Back then you told me uploading it shouldn't be a legal issue, but I don't believe it was ever uploaded, unless I missed something? Would you still be interested in hosting this? I would likely include the remaining sounds stored in PRIV.TRE and RF.TRE as well (mostly gun sounds, most likely?) , although I'm not sure these days I would have the time needed to sort out these remaining sounds.

Awesome! That has totally slipped my brain after all this time but I'd certainly be happy to post it now! In fact we can probably offer both a download and embedded copies that you can play right from the wiki today.

EDIT : I'd like to take a look at Catscratch's (and Maniac's ?) morale in WC4 at some point, as well.

I'd love to chart out the Dekker v Maniac choice. I looked at it a little recently and was surprised by how few opportunities I could find for Dekker to actually delay a miission.
 
Awesome! That has totally slipped my brain after all this time but I'd certainly be happy to post it now! In fact we can probably offer both a download and embedded copies that you can play right from the wiki today.

Thank you! I will probably be double-checking the archive (and adding the missing line) before sending it again, just in case. :) Shouldn't take more than a few days.

I'd love to chart out the Dekker v Maniac choice. I looked at it a little recently and was surprised by how few opportunities I could find for Dekker to actually delay a miission.

I'll try to take a look at this soon. It's been forever since I last sided with Maniac on a playthrough. While siding with Dekker never seemed to affect my playthrough in any significant way, I sure found plenty of ways to get in trouble for siding with Maniac : Dekker can delay his victory in the second Circe planetary mission and he can also delay his victory during the assault on the Black Lance transport, resulting in additional enemy fighters showing up. I believe he might also delay his victory over the crew of the Confed cruiser in the "Collect weapons" mission in Speradon (same goes for the base carrying the Starburst missiles in "Attack manufacturing plant", I guess? Although that one hardly matters). While this may not be a big deal if you choose to shut down the supply line in Circe or if you choose "Collect fighters" in Speradon, I would hate to side against Dekker for both that planetary mission and the "Collect weapons" mission (in this one mission, you have to use an Avenger without the Mace because all of your torpedo slots are being used by Manned Insertion Pods, and fighting Lances in an Avenger can already be a major pain even if you side with Dekker, especially once you run out of missiles and decoys).
 
I'll try to take a look at this soon. It's been forever since I last sided with Maniac on a playthrough. While siding with Dekker never seemed to affect my playthrough in any significant way, I sure found plenty of ways to get in trouble for siding with Maniac : Dekker can delay his victory in the second Circe planetary mission and he can also delay his victory during the assault on the Black Lance transport, resulting in additional enemy fighters showing up. I believe he might also delay his victory over the crew of the Confed cruiser in the "Collect weapons" mission in Speradon (same goes for the base carrying the Starburst missiles in "Attack manufacturing plant", I guess? Although that one hardly matters). While this may not be a big deal if you choose to shut down the supply line in Circe or if you choose "Collect fighters" in Speradon, I would hate to side against Dekker for both that planetary mission and the "Collect weapons" mission (in this one mission, you have to use an Avenger without the Mace because all of your torpedo slots are being used by Manned Insertion Pods, and fighting Lances in an Avenger can already be a major pain even if you side with Dekker, especially once you run out of missiles and decoys).

So that's how I also assume it works but I've just run through all the different configurations and the ONLY mission where I've had Dekker delay his boarding is Speradon LB, the weapons factory. Is it possible that's somehow the only possible change?

And I have no idea what it does to Maniac. I assume it sets him to low morale but I have not tested that.
 
This is not Panther/Hawk specific but it is related to the Wing Commander III/IV morale system. I've always been curious about this but it only occurred to me just now to ask.

If you were to alter Maniac's morale points in a WC3 or 4 save using a hex editor, how many points would it take for him to become obedient and follow orders? I know that he sometimes follows orders, I've had him mysteriously follow orders in WC3 when I issued an order by mistake on occasion (and Flash too for some reason), and I know that even in WC4 he recorded lines for complying with orders but I've never had him actually obey one.
 
The pilot morale outcome is binary, each pilot has two profiles with distinct routines and comm responses, low (worse) and high (better). In Wing Commander III, low is 0 to 5 and high is 6 to 15. You can tell which a pilot is at based on their comms responses. In WC3, Maniac's "no damage" responses are "they can't touch me" (high) and "I'm looking fine--as usual" (low). In WC4, it's "I'm looking fine, as usual" (high) and "what are you? my mother?" (low). So that is to say there's no specific point where he obeys all orders, just two profiles that each have a different percent chance that he might obey orders. And I believe a specific quirk with Maniac is that his loyalty value goes up when his morale hits low!
 
This was amazing and goes to show you games from the mid-90s have more true Choice mechanics than games coming out in 2025. It's quite amazing and kind of sad at the same time.

as most people know wing Commander two and four are my two favorite games in the series. Wing Commander 4 really does make you feel like you're a captain making semi complex decisions in a war campaign. It's a pretty developed game mechanic considering that's not the main focus of the gameplay Loop.

Meanwhile you got modern games with Choice mechanics that seem complex at first but really just funnel you down a path with very little differences to them.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
So that's how I also assume it works but I've just run through all the different configurations and the ONLY mission where I've had Dekker delay his boarding is Speradon LB, the weapons factory. Is it possible that's somehow the only possible change?


And I have no idea what it does to Maniac. I assume it sets him to low morale but I have not tested that.


So I'm still working on that Maniac/Dekker choice, I will be sure to write a full report as soon as I can. So far, I can say that I agree with you, I haven't found any opportunity to make Dekker delay his victory during any mission that's not the weapons factory mission. Which is somewhat odd, as I remember Dekker being a *lot* more annoying in the French version. Maybe because the French version likely used an earlier build of the game?


Also, good news : the Privateer and Righteous Fire sound files are ready : Download link

A few notes :

-There are several unused sound files.
-I did not include duplicates most of the time, such as Garrovick's duplicate "Vicious bastard" taunts. An exception to this was "Maybe we can do business some time" ("PRIV0176.WAV") in the "Male Merchants - Neutral" subfolder, which is actually said in a female voice, much like "PRIV0515.WAV" in the "Female Merchants - Neutral" subfolder. This is because there is actually a small chance of hearing this oversight within the actual game.
-I included the miscellaneous sounds (gun sounds, combat sounds, etc.) in the "Misc Sounds" subfolder. Apologies, I do not have the time needed to sort these out at the moment.
-I think I might have made a mistake when it comes to sorting out one of Kroiz's voice files, as there was a line I wasn't so sure about.
-I have included the unsorted WAV files and the original, unsorted VOC files (which contain the same sounds, just in "Creative Voice File" format) in a third folder. There are some files in there that didn't belong in the other two folders, such as the voice files for the intro cutscenes of both Privateer and Righteous Fire - you should be able to find those easily if you start listening to the voice files with the highest numbers first.

Enjoy!
 
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