Official Music Petition!
- Thread starter LeHah
- Start date
ace
Pepper's Keeper - Administrator
Alright I wasn't quite sure people were aware that that was the main goal here as some people seem to think that a magic WC cd would appear featuring music from all the games in some big super cd and not that Oldziey would most likely do only 10 minutes of his favorite themes. Granted it would naturally be nice to see this happen, but all too often the community happily disillusions itself.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
I would be very, very happy with ten minutes of music. Fatman seems very interested in doing WC music, too, though...
LeHah
212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
I've had extensive contact with Oldziey and Fatman about the subject of the WC Music project. Oldziey wants to do a 10 minute medley of his work, and Fatman sounds more interested in doing what we had wanted: A CD of multiple tracks.
Fatman had previously contacted EA leagal about releasing a surf remix of the WC1 theme for a benefit CD. EA's legal eagle Brian Ward, the Director of Business Affairs, said this: "...I agree with Murray. We can't rep and warrant that the rights are in order in EA's house on this piece..."
In the mail Fatman sent me, he had this to say about the overall situation with the WC music: "...So what we're talking about, I think, is that the music has fallen off the radar, and nobody wants to risk getting in trouble if they use it and somebody comes out of the woodwork to claim that they own it. Given the nature of the people and companies involved, I can't imagine anything real bad happening..."
I plan on sending the petition once a day, via email, to EA, once it has a sizeable number of signatures...
-J
Fatman had previously contacted EA leagal about releasing a surf remix of the WC1 theme for a benefit CD. EA's legal eagle Brian Ward, the Director of Business Affairs, said this: "...I agree with Murray. We can't rep and warrant that the rights are in order in EA's house on this piece..."
In the mail Fatman sent me, he had this to say about the overall situation with the WC music: "...So what we're talking about, I think, is that the music has fallen off the radar, and nobody wants to risk getting in trouble if they use it and somebody comes out of the woodwork to claim that they own it. Given the nature of the people and companies involved, I can't imagine anything real bad happening..."
I plan on sending the petition once a day, via email, to EA, once it has a sizeable number of signatures...
-J
ace
Pepper's Keeper - Administrator
Why so incredibly confrontational? If both Wing Commander composers are not only interested in the project but are also actively trying to pursue it what good will constantly bombarding EA do? Sure a petition can't hurt, but sending it as a daily attack just doesn't make any sense since it certainly won't hurt them but could certainly hurt your credibility.
LeHah
212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
I have no crediblity with EA, thus none is lost.
I'm fighting for the rights of the composers to get their own work orchestrated, but due to EA's supposed copyrights, they won't unless they have sufficent reason to make it (like, making money). By shoving the petition down their throats makes them aware that at least, I'M not going away!
I'm fighting for the rights of the composers to get their own work orchestrated, but due to EA's supposed copyrights, they won't unless they have sufficent reason to make it (like, making money). By shoving the petition down their throats makes them aware that at least, I'M not going away!
Black Joker
Spaceman
I'm with You, people!
I'm Mikhail Babloyan aka Black Joker and I want sign this petition.
I doubt, I'll ever see (hear) this wonderful CD (Russia is far-far country from You, guys), but nevertheless...
Good Luck!
I'm Mikhail Babloyan aka Black Joker and I want sign this petition.
I doubt, I'll ever see (hear) this wonderful CD (Russia is far-far country from You, guys), but nevertheless...
Good Luck!
Bob McDob
Better Health Through Less Flavor
Well...you'll want to take this kind of stuff out of it before you send it in...
Seriously...this is on-the-record...HEY! EA! See all the people signing this list? Several of them of far-off countries who woult pay good money for it? Well, I'll bet that for every person who signs this, there are eight who will pay COLD, HARD CASH for a CD! So make it! WE WANT THE WORLD AND WE WANT IT NOW!!!!!
(okay, I'm done now...)
Count me in. My name is Philip de Bruin. I live in Auckland, New Zealand. My callsign is Bug Slayer. WC music is on an equal level as some of the anime/RPG OSTs I own. I rank G. Oldziey right up there with N. Uematsu. SO EA/OSI please let Oldziey produce some new WC tracks for a few complimation CDs. The WC fan community would be pleased since you won't be providing us with any new WC games for a LONG time.
PPro out
[Edited by PhilPro on 04-23-2001 at 03:10]
PPro out
[Edited by PhilPro on 04-23-2001 at 03:10]
Quarto
Unknown Enemy
<Sigh> Come on, LOAF. That's not only insulting, it's also totally unfair - it's not like any of us claimed that EA would agree. Now of course we knew that the chances of getting EA to release the source were very, very close to nil, but we also felt that there was a slim possiblity, because we believed that it would actually benefit EA to release the source - and some people inside Origin actually agreed with us about that. I'm certainly not about to defend Jumper's childish rant after we got the negative reply, but I think it's very unfair to say that the whole petition was an "incredibly stupid" idea, or that the people doing it were "incredibly stupid".Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
No, EA's stance on incredibly stupid people was clear with the whole WCESCRPREP thing.
And to everyone else - what is incredibly stupid, on the other hand, is when people immediately assume that a petition won't work, and so they don't sign. The whole idea of a petition is to persuade somebody about something they otherwise wouldn't do - by definition, petitions are all about getting the impossible to happen. Refusing to sign is stupid - apart from enabling you to say "I told you so" later on, it gives you nothing.
Mekt-Hakkikt
Mpanty's bane
Name: Raphael Walz
Callsign: Mekt-Hakkikt
Callsign: Mekt-Hakkikt
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
It was intended to be insulting -- as was the WCESRP.
It was certainly a noble goal -- I'd love to see the source released, I think it'd help EA, I think it'd help us, I don't think there's any downside to it at all... but the way the WCESRP went about getting it was insulting. The way it took them months to write a letter, the way it was sent to Origin's PR guy and the head of the Ultima 9 PR team rather than anyone at EA, the fact that Jumper strutted around IRC like we were supposed to treat him like a god because he'd started a petition, the fact that it was sent as an e-mail instead of a written letter... the way that it was written as if it was *demanding* the source code... these are all things I complained about *before* the fact -- I stated *before* the fact that it would not work because of these reasons, and that's why I refused to sign.
I'm all in favor of a petition done properly. But that one wasn't. As LeHah has clearly demonstrated, petitions have a hope of working... but lets do one the right way.
It was certainly a noble goal -- I'd love to see the source released, I think it'd help EA, I think it'd help us, I don't think there's any downside to it at all... but the way the WCESRP went about getting it was insulting. The way it took them months to write a letter, the way it was sent to Origin's PR guy and the head of the Ultima 9 PR team rather than anyone at EA, the fact that Jumper strutted around IRC like we were supposed to treat him like a god because he'd started a petition, the fact that it was sent as an e-mail instead of a written letter... the way that it was written as if it was *demanding* the source code... these are all things I complained about *before* the fact -- I stated *before* the fact that it would not work because of these reasons, and that's why I refused to sign.
I'm all in favor of a petition done properly. But that one wasn't. As LeHah has clearly demonstrated, petitions have a hope of working... but lets do one the right way.
Quarto
Unknown Enemy
I'll readily admit that WCESCRP as a whole did several things wrong, but there's no insult in that.
I'll also readily admit that Jumper's behaviour was arrogant, but how that would stop you from signing on, or Origin from listening (he certainly never was arrogant to them, at least not before the letter was sent).
As for you stating all those things before... I'm sorry, but I never heard any of this before. I never even thought that the e-mail should be sent to EA rather than Origin, and I certainly never heard you say that before it was sent. <Sigh> Let me guess... you told Jumper, on IRC, and he didn't pass it on to the rest of us.
And sending the letter by e-mail, rather than conventional mail (again, I never heard that you had suggested this)... very true that it would have been better. I personally don't think there's anything insulting about sending an e-mail instead of normal mail, but I guess I'm just more used to e-mail than David Swofford's generation.
[Edited by Quarto on 04-23-2001 at 12:26]
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Well, IRC is one place where we complained to Jumper -- but I once sent him a lengthy e-mail about the problems, and recieved some reply about how my opinions wouldn't affect anything. The entire CIC staff was quite vocal at agwc (as it was the center for WC-posting at the time) regarding the flaws of the endeavour...
EA certainly would have been a better choice -- David Swofford has no control over copywrites... the best he can do would be to pass it on to EA. E-mail instead of physical letter isn't *insulting*, but it shows a lack of commitment -- a real written letter will be taken much more seriously than an e-mail from a fan.
EA certainly would have been a better choice -- David Swofford has no control over copywrites... the best he can do would be to pass it on to EA. E-mail instead of physical letter isn't *insulting*, but it shows a lack of commitment -- a real written letter will be taken much more seriously than an e-mail from a fan.
Quarto
Unknown Enemy
Dammit... at the start of the whole WCESCRP thing, Jumper disappeared for two or three months, and PopsiclePete and I had actually considered continuing the project without him - it would now seem as though that would have been the best thing to do 
.
Would you believe that not even one of your comments ever got through to the rest of us? Not your e-mail, not your IRC comments, not your AGWC posts (I can't access IRC due to my proxy, and I don't use AGWC because the CIC Chatzone takes up plenty of my time already ;-) ).
I would appreciate it though, if you could differentiate between Jumper and WCESCRP the next time you throw one of those "incredibly stupid" comments. I personally am guilty of taking ages on writing the letter, but I don't think that either my or PopsiclePete's conduct was wrong in any other way.
.Would you believe that not even one of your comments ever got through to the rest of us? Not your e-mail, not your IRC comments, not your AGWC posts (I can't access IRC due to my proxy, and I don't use AGWC because the CIC Chatzone takes up plenty of my time already ;-) ).
I would appreciate it though, if you could differentiate between Jumper and WCESCRP the next time you throw one of those "incredibly stupid" comments
. I personally am guilty of taking ages on writing the letter, but I don't think that either my or PopsiclePete's conduct was wrong in any other way.
LeHah
212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
Loaf, am I doing the petition the right way?
Updates from Both Fatman and Mr Oldziey:
Fatman: Orchestrating music is _VERY_ hard work. I'd sure like to see a CD happen, but George O. isn't the Government that you elected and paid and needs to keep you supported. Therefore, a "petition" is not an effective motivator. You might try a paycheck Really, continue helping, supporting, offering more kind words in public and in front of his employers and the game community.
George--I'm passing you a petition. If you sign it, we can get Justin and his friends to come over and support your family while you work on the orchestrations for the Big CD!!!
Mr Oldziey:
Justin,
While I am pleased with your and the other fans' interest in my work, I have to say that you need a big dose of reality. First of all, as (Fatman) said, orchestrating music is very hard work, the kind of work that I get
paid good money for. I'd be happy to orchestrate as much of the music as you want, but it would not be free. I would have to set aside a significant amount of time to accomplish what you have in mind. I think any orchestrator would feel the same way. If you want some idea of what my
rates are for that feel free to contact me. When I said 10 minutes of music that was when I was planning on doing it on my own time and then providing the score and parts for whomever wanted to buy them.
It might all be moot anyway because I did hear back from the head legal guy at EA. He told me that EA would not give up the rights to any of that music but would be interested in licensing it. In other words, someone would have to pay them a fee or work out a percentage deal for them to allow the use of it. I don't know what kind of money they are talking about, but I was interested in licensing a little of it to start and see what kind of
interest there would be in selling orchestrations. If you are unhappy with that situation then perhaps you can contact them yourself and work something out.
George
Updates from Both Fatman and Mr Oldziey:
Fatman: Orchestrating music is _VERY_ hard work. I'd sure like to see a CD happen, but George O. isn't the Government that you elected and paid and needs to keep you supported. Therefore, a "petition" is not an effective motivator. You might try a paycheck
Really, continue helping, supporting, offering more kind words in public and in front of his employers and the game community.George--I'm passing you a petition. If you sign it, we can get Justin and his friends to come over and support your family while you work on the orchestrations for the Big CD!!!
Mr Oldziey:
Justin,
While I am pleased with your and the other fans' interest in my work, I have to say that you need a big dose of reality. First of all, as (Fatman) said, orchestrating music is very hard work, the kind of work that I get
paid good money for. I'd be happy to orchestrate as much of the music as you want, but it would not be free. I would have to set aside a significant amount of time to accomplish what you have in mind. I think any orchestrator would feel the same way. If you want some idea of what my
rates are for that feel free to contact me. When I said 10 minutes of music that was when I was planning on doing it on my own time and then providing the score and parts for whomever wanted to buy them.
It might all be moot anyway because I did hear back from the head legal guy at EA. He told me that EA would not give up the rights to any of that music but would be interested in licensing it. In other words, someone would have to pay them a fee or work out a percentage deal for them to allow the use of it. I don't know what kind of money they are talking about, but I was interested in licensing a little of it to start and see what kind of
interest there would be in selling orchestrations. If you are unhappy with that situation then perhaps you can contact them yourself and work something out.
George