Now don't go postal with this

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
Maybe the two captains were related and the second one went out looking for trouble with whoever killed his relative.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
No offense, but the whole reason why any of us are arguing this point at all is because there is no right or wrong i.e. there has been no published timeline post-movie (the Confed handbook, if I can speculate correctly, makes no mention of anything similar to the game timeline) so we don't know for certain who is right and who is wrong. So don't go saying anybody is wrong with such certainty, Kris, because *you*, sir, have no jurisdiction whatsoever other than that which your inflated ego imposes on you.
But... you've repeatedly called people wrong... and stood up for other people who are calling people wrong... argue a point or concede it, but don't pick nits with Kris for deflating your "EVERYONE AGREES WITH ME" ego-fest.

As for majorities and minorities, outside the CIC staff, I think you will find that most sane Wing Commander fans would laugh hard at the attempts to slip the movie, and the Iason incident, into the game timeline continuity.
That's kind of an idiotic statement... but for kicks, go back through this thread -- you'll find that quite a few people who aren't part of THE EVIL CIC STAFF disagree with you.

What I don't understand is, LOAF, the movie-Iason incident is only chronicled in the Confed Handbook, and possibly the novel(? haven't read either). Then it has been pointed out that the author ofthat handbook said that everything in there was deliberately different from the game universe. *Then* you argue that the guy is in no place to make that claim. *But* you religiously (literally) follow his Iason incident story. I'm thinking, if this guy who has written this stuff is in no place to write anything, why don't you simply discredit that Iason story as apocrypha?
You're very confused -- who said that the man who wrote the book is in no place to write anything? He was contracted to write the handbook by WCP... and then they published it -- making it part of the WC Universe.
 

Dougie

Spaceman
*big sigh* LOAF where have I ever said that someone is right or wrong? I'm not ego-festing. I've never figured that an online internet forum is exactly the place to boost my ego, thanks. Kris, on the other hand, is evidently egotistical enough to call me and others "wrong", which I resent and am perfectly in my right to dispute.

Even you say yourself, your theories are just that, theories. Even you would concede you don't know for certain what is true or not.

As for the Confed handbook guy. He was quoted earlier as saying "Everything in the Confed Handbook follows RELIGIOUSLY from the continuity of the MOVIE. However, that continuity is deliberately, extensively and consistantly DIFFERENT from the continuity of the games."

The only rational argument that wouldn't debunk all of your pro-movie theories would be to say that this guy isn't qualified to say that.
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
Dougie certainly likes the term "Apocrapha" as he sent me an email about our previous Star Wars arguement. I disagree with his post though, esp in reguards to Kris.

Although I have had many arguements with Kris over his administrative tactics, I do believe that he is usually in the right. When you sign on this board, be prepared to respect people (esp Administrators! ;) ) or get your IP addy banned. It's simple.

Though I was corrected by you in our Star Wars arguement, you did come across as a bit too egocentric and spiteful that people have opinions outside your "sphere of influence". I don't know what gang your running around with in Middle School, but we don't usually tolerate that kinda BS unless it's in fun. (For the record, I'm all about fun unless I say so.)

The only rational argument that wouldn't debunk all of your pro-movie theories would be to say that this guy isn't qualified to say that.
And you, Dougie, are "qualified" to say...? :D



[Edited by LeHah on 07-13-2001 at 11:02]
 

mpanty

Keen Commander
Originally posted by Dougie

As for the Confed handbook guy. He was quoted earlier as saying "Everything in the Confed Handbook follows RELIGIOUSLY from the continuity of the MOVIE. However, that continuity is deliberately, extensively and consistantly DIFFERENT from the continuity of the games."

The only rational argument that wouldn't debunk all of your pro-movie theories would be to say that this guy isn't qualified to say that.
Well apparently that's what LOAF is saying, thta McCubbin is not qualified as setting things canon or not...

And in that I agree...

But I also agree that McCubbin has the one opinion that I agree with the most... I won't add anymore than this...
 

Dougie

Spaceman
"hen you sign on this board, be prepared to respect people (esp Administrators! ) or get your IP addy banned. It's simple."

I respect the administrators, thanks. However my point that they have no authority to judge what is right or wrong with regards to Wing Commander extends no further than any other fan.

"Though I was corrected by you in our Star Wars arguement, you did come across as a bit too egocentric and spiteful that people have opinions outside your "sphere of influence". I don't know what gang your running around with in Middle School, but we don't usually tolerate that kinda BS unless it's in fun."

My egocentricity and spitefulness(?) came from the fact that I was being disputed with over a point that had no counter-argument evidence, yet still was stubbornly kept to until absolute 100% solid unrefutable evidence was presnted. Passionate and eccentric maybe.
The middle school remark I also resent. If you will debate matters like an adult, I would suggest you refrain from punctuating your arguments with such ungrounded accusations. Do I honestly type like I'm....what age is middle school(at a guess 12-14?) (forgive the person who is not part of your 'proud' nation)? My spelling and grammar is certainly better than someone I might be replying to now, judging on his previous post.

"and you, Dougie, are "qualified" to say...? "

Don't put words in my mouth.
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
Pardon for missing an "e" in "you're". I didn't know we had a stickler for spelling present. Apparently, you don't mind dishing it out, but take offense to being insulted. If you can't stand the fire... ;)

Finally, since this is the last reply I'll be making to you as I have next to no time to indulge on completely ripping you open verbally in ways that God would wince at, I am a part of this "proud" nation, but not proud of it.

As for putting words in your mouth, well, I know what you could stick in there, but I'm too much of a gentleman to direct you there... ;)
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
The only rational argument that wouldn't debunk all of your pro-movie theories would be to say that this guy isn't qualified to say that.
But I already claimed just that -- he is *not* in a position to decide whether or not his work is part of the Wing Commander Universe... any more than Chris Douglas could show up and claim that the Combined Forces logo he designed for WC3 should be ignored for some reason.

I'm....what age is middle school(at a guess 12-14?) (forgive the person who is not part of your 'proud' nation)?
I think that stupid water-kidney thread earlier has proved the folly of assuming that you can judge someones origin based on how well they write -- lots of countries have middle schools... (And if we get into the usual crap about how stupid Americans are because they don't think you're special I'll ban you all.)

I respect the administrators, thanks. However my point that they have no authority to judge what is right or wrong with regards to Wing Commander extends no further than any other fan.
But everyone in this thread is calling eachother right and wrong -- Kris is just one of those people. Deciding to pick on him for doing so *because* he's an admin is... stupid.
 

Dougie

Spaceman
Surprisingly enough, I singled out KrisV since he was the last to individually attempt to dismiss that I say. So please don't call my actions idiotic.

"But I already claimed just that -- he is *not* in a position to decide whether or not his work is part of the Wing Commander Universe..."

You miss the point. Why would the author say this if he had not been instructed to write the book that way?

And regardless of which, I would like to remind the thread that movie deaths of Bossman (off screen) and Knight, despite any theories that could explain their "reappearance" in the game, show that Roberts had no intention to make the movie fit with the game universe or, at least, that he didn't care either way. No sane person would kill characters off in the knowledge that they appear later on in the timeline.

Please also drop the insults. Just as I'm about ready to drop it, someone comes along with a fresh attack. I don't feel I deserve it.
 

Frosty

a full fledged GF
Originally posted by Dougie
You miss the point. Why would the author say this if he had not been instructed to write the book that way?
No, you miss the point. He wasn't told, "Make sure you're accurate with the movie. Oh and by the way, It's not really part of the WCU, it just shares the name." He was probably told, "Write a book. You have a month."
Please also drop the insults. Just as I'm about ready to drop it, someone comes along with a fresh attack. I don't feel I deserve it.
LOAF saying that something you did was stupid isn't insulting you. Me telling you you're an idiot is me insulting you. Can you see the difference?

Your problem is that you're overly-argumentative and far too defensive to have a rational discussion with rational people. You just like to fly off at the handle every goddamn 30 seconds.




[Edited by Frosty on 07-13-2001 at 12:25]
 

Dougie

Spaceman
"No, you miss the point. He wasn't told, "Make sure you're accurate with the movie. Oh and by the way, It's not really part of the WCU, it just shares the name." He was probably told, "Write a book. You have a month.""

Then provide a rational explaination for why he said that it was deliberately different from the game universe.

I'll ignore the rest of what you said.
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
I'm sitting in my little corner avoiding this arguement...

la la la

:)
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
Can I join you? ;) I'll bring treats and we can watch it like a movie!

::Heard over intercom:: Bets now being taken on odds of Dougie's banning! Bets now being taken! Betting booths ARE open!
 

Dougie

Spaceman
"Because he didn't know what the hell he was talking about. Much like yourself."

Oh good one. I never looked at it like that before.

Seriously, rational explaination? I'm thinking he must have had a reason. He isn't just going to say that off the cuff. It's a pretty well structured, formulated sentence that is in no way ambiguous. And the implication in the sentence is that he is referring to the movie as well. I would think it likely that he had been told that prior to his writing.

"He was probably told, "Write a book. You have a month.""
However in no way would the only reference material he was given be limited to a copy of the film. Most likely he was given guidelines and details, and it almost definately would have gone through proofreading by someone higher up in the chain of command.

Can I bet myself?
 

Frosty

a full fledged GF
That actually was a pretty good answer. McCubbin probably just didn't know what he was talking about at the time. He made a WC guide, that doesn't make him the foremost authority on Wing Commander. I trust his opinion far less than I trust LOAF's. Even less than I trust my own.
 

Dougie

Spaceman
That actually was a pretty good answer. McCubbin probably just didn't know what he was talking about at the time. He made a WC guide, that doesn't make him the foremost authority on Wing Commander. I trust his opinion far less than I trust LOAF's. Even less than I trust my own.

I don't see why. To make a guide he would have had to have help from the official channels. I don't see what evidence you have supporting the fact that he didn't know what he's talking about. I would say he must know what he's talking about, otherwise he wouldn't have said it, especially seeing how he's a writer and probably has a fair grasp and understanding of the english language and the implications of such a sentence. One thing is clear, he was certainly sure of what he said. And LOAF, despite his extensive knowledge, does not know what goes on behind the scenes, and chances are this author did. I have no doubt that he worked with some members of the team and was given some knowledge prior to the movies release, and that it wasn't, as you appear to suggest, written in the month between the movie's release and the release of the handbook (because things don'twork like that, what with post production and so forth).

The author *would* have been given some guidelines, and it is likely that one of them would be how to design things relative to the games. Hence his response, implying that he was told not to adhere to the games; which thusly implies that Roberts' intention was to ignore the games completely. Which is the point I have been trying to make for the past three days.
 

Ladiesman^

Spaceman
And my arguement was that what I pointed out was just a bad inconsistancy. I wasn't really looking for a way to squeeze it into the WCU, I simply pointing it out. Since some people are like "But the WCM fits in the WCU perfectly". But that's not the case. Elements of it fit, but alot of other stuff doesn't.
 
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