New joystick/flightstick

gaugeyagee

Spaceman
Well, now you've done it. This game is so good that it compelled me to hook up the Saitek X45 that I had packed away for the last year. After just a week or so of playing Wing Commander: Standoff, this stick has finally worn down to the point of playing being more frustrating than fun. The stick won't center correctly anymore, probably due to the spring inside the stick having been worn down through years of use.

Anyway, it appears that all the remaining high scores are safe for the moment :)) )because I'm in the market for a new joystick/flightstick. What do all of you recommend? I've had cheapo joysticks and high-end flightsticks like this Saitek one (which lasted the longest out of any PC stick I've had in my whole life). I'm mainly just looking for input from fellow flight sim fans on what kinds of sticks you use, have used, recommend, etc. etc.


Thanks,
Gaugeyagee
 
Everything I could recommend is well ABOVE what you consider high-end flightsticks.
Namely A CH Force FX with a Pro Throttle (doesn't like XP) and Pro Pedals or a Thrustmaster Cougar (No Force Feedback unfortunately). Was/Am very pleased with both. Just not with the the price...
 
Can't give you much advice there myself, I'm afraid.

I use an *extremely* old MS Sidewinder joystick... the very first model they made, I think. The trigger button broke after a year of use or so, but at least all the axes still calibrate quite nicely.
 
Well, now you've done it. This game is so good that it compelled me to hook up the Saitek X45 that I had packed away for the last year. After just a week or so of playing Wing Commander: Standoff, this stick has finally worn down to the point of playing being more frustrating than fun. The stick won't center correctly anymore, probably due to the spring inside the stick having been worn down through years of use.

Anyway, it appears that all the remaining high scores are safe for the moment :)) )because I'm in the market for a new joystick/flightstick. What do all of you recommend? I've had cheapo joysticks and high-end flightsticks like this Saitek one (which lasted the longest out of any PC stick I've had in my whole life). I'm mainly just looking for input from fellow flight sim fans on what kinds of sticks you use, have used, recommend, etc. etc.


Thanks,
Gaugeyagee

I don't use throttles much, so the lower price of the Thrustmaster Fox 2 Pro USB is good enough for me. I was used to the Afterburner, and since that's basically the same stick without the throttle, it works for me.

Don't really use the throttle in WC games because, if you're going slow, you generally end up dead, so I go either full military power or afterburner.

But that's just me.
 
Everything I could recommend is well ABOVE what you consider high-end flightsticks.
Namely A CH Force FX with a Pro Throttle (doesn't like XP) and Pro Pedals or a Thrustmaster Cougar (No Force Feedback unfortunately). Was/Am very pleased with both. Just not with the the price...


I thought about a Cougar once...ONCE. The price tag was enough to knock that thought out of my head forevermore.
 
Ok so i've bought myself a pretty expensive Logitech G940 Hotas system. Here's the thing: Windows lists the stick, throttle and rudder as three seperate devices. Now i already found out the Freespace engine lets you only use one controller device at a time, so i wanted to ask if anyone has any experience with Standoff and Prophecy/Secret Ops in that regard.
The G940 is programmable, but unfortunately that's no option with the throttle. There's a program called ppjoy, which apparently lets you combine different game controllers into one, but i haven't managed to get it to work under Windows 7. If it doesn't work for Standoff at all it's pretty much useless to me, as i can't use it in Freespace or the X-Series either.
Didn't older throttles work by being plugged between PC and keyboard, emulating a press of the buttons 1-9? If so maybe there is a way to program a modern throttle in a similar way.
 
https://www.wcnews.com/chatzone/threads/cheap-ass-tested-joystick-on-a-budget.26047/

I made this thread just for a case like this, my old setups won't align anymore either, and shipping them over for a refit, if available, would be just to much money... And those include the TCS and the Falcon setup, as well as a suncom setup.

This stick should be available for under 45 dollars worldwide. And it is still in production(I checked). Standoff, Starlancer, and Saga fly great with this(they moved the rudders to the throttle handle), the stick is durable, and in the really worst case I found on the net it lasts at least a year. It features rumble, wich I wish I could map to being shot at, somewhere... And you need to upgrade the firmware and manually do some things to set it up correctly, but once it's done it's great, and excellent value for money. Had to be ordered, was in within three days at the local retailer.
 
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Yeah i still have a Sidewinder Force Feedback too, which i even got working. It's just uncomfortable to use for me, i prefer a "throttle - keyboard - stick"-setup. Rudder pedals are quite useful too, but i think i can just program the rudder axes to act like a simple button, that way at least those should work.
I was hoping somebody maybe found a way to make the whole system (or a similar Hotas) work.
 
Well, I set it up with logitech stuff before. and there are freeware mapping tools to support keyboard emulation(Old DIN/PS2 quickshot throttles could be hardware mapped). Profiler software like logitech's is a pain in the ass, I suggest using joy.cpl to get your axis working correctly, and using http://www.electracode.com/4/joy2key/JoyToKey English Version.htm to map you surplus buttons, and avoiding profiler software alltogether. And yes, then you can actually get it all to work, the reason my old setups quit was aging, oxidation and rust in the device itself.
 
I have no problems reassigning the buttons, it's the throttle axis that's giving me a headache. Standoff only seems to recognize the default game controller, if i chose the Joystick as default, rudder and throttle don't work and vice versa. No problem for buttons, i just have to program them with the Prophecy keyboard setup, but i have yet to find a program that let's me reassign different axes. Or simulate a press of the 1-9 keys on the keyboard when using the throttle axis like i said.
Funnily, if i use the stick as default controller, Standoff *does* recognize a rudder axis - namely a small scrolling wheel at the joystick base (which i have no idea why Logitech put it there). But Prophecy doesn't even allow remapping keys, much less axes.
I understand why Logitech made stick, throttle and rudder each a different device in joy.cpl, that way you can combine them with other devices from other manufacturers. It just doesn't seem to work out with games older than 5 years.
 
Joy.cpl command is windows internally, and applies to every brand. Open joy.cpl, select your logitech, press advanced, and you can assign it to support legacy software, worked for me. Don't calibrate it in anywhere else then in joy.cpl and possibly deinstall your logitech profiler software, only keep the joystick driver installed. joy.cpl recognizes two axes setups, first being your X/Y(main stick), and the Rz/Z(rudder or pedals / Throttle), set it up there correctly and standoff handles like a dream, as does starlancer, and the Kilrathi saga. The modern HOTAS systems recalibrates itself, so just reconnect the USB port or deinstall/reinstall the hardware.
 
I've only messed with it a bit, but PPJoy will let you combine multiple devices' axis into a single virtual controller you can select in-game.
 
@Mace: Problem is, my Joy.cpl lists three seperate devices, stick, throttle and rudder, as that is the way Logitech has chosen. But Prophecy/Secret Ops/Standoff only lets me use one of them (the default controller to be specific), the other two are ignored. Like i said no problem with the buttons as i can program them manually, but i can't use the throttle and rudder axis this way. Other HOTAS systems appear as one single device in joy.cpl, probably no issues at all then.

@Aube: Yeah PPJoy was my hope too, but it has severe issues in Windows 7 64bit. I managed to install it, no small feat itself as in Windows7 you can authorize its drivers only in Testmode. But when i try to assign axes and buttons, it doesn't recognize any device at all, Testmode or not.

Thanks for the help though. Does anyone know how the Thrustmaster Warthog Hotas handles things, does it appear as one device in joy.cpl or as multiple controllers?
 
Yes, had to do that in order to install PPJoy in the first place. I am in Testmode right now, have manually signed the drivers, Hotas is plugged in, PPJoy is running, but when i scan for axes or buttons, it doesn't recognize any.
I was going to blame Windows Security Updates for disallowing PPJoy's intrusive method, but in your link i saw posts newer than a month that say it works, so i have no idea.

EDIT: OK don't know what did it, but all the axes and buttons work now. So in Freespace/Saga i can use all functions of my Hotas now, so for that alone: Thank you.
However, Standoff still acts as if only the stick is connected, apparently only using "Logitech G940 Joystick" instead of "PPJoy Virtual Joystick 1", even though i made it the default game controller. I tried switching controller IDs around with "JoyIDs", but Standoff still doesn't seem impressed. Now that's something i find really odd, there already were multiple game controllers back when Prophecy came out, so there has to be a way of telling the game which one to use.
Normally every game, even the older ones, would use the "default" controller. But i set the Virtual stick as default, so that's not it.
The only other explanations i'd have is that either the virtual stick doesn't "look" enough like a joystick for Standoff so it choses the next best thing, or it always uses the device higher on the list no matter its set priority. That is, "Logitech G940 Joystick" is higher in the joy.cpl list than "PPJoy Virtual Joystick 1" because of the alphabet.
 
To answer the original poster's question, I really like my Logitech Extreme3D Pro. Hat, throttle, stick twists for rudder, and 12 buttons for less than $50. Haven't had much luck with Saiteks, perhaps because all the local stores had were the cheapest models. After 15 years, I still miss my CH FlightStick Pro.
 
The only other explanations i'd have is that either the virtual stick doesn't "look" enough like a joystick for Standoff so it choses the next best thing, or it always uses the device higher on the list no matter its set priority. That is, "Logitech G940 Joystick" is higher in the joy.cpl list than "PPJoy Virtual Joystick 1" because of the alphabet.

In that case, select the PPjoy VJ in joy.cpl, and select advanced, and reassign it as the joystick in use for older software, you might also try to go into the original Secret Ops launcher and see if you can select it there...
 
That's what i meant when i said i set the Virtual Joystick as default controller. Sorry, should have been clearer about that. In fact, i assigned every single axis of the virtual stick to my throttle to be sure too, it still recognizes only joystick movement.
The Secret Ops Launcher is no help either, when i try to select the stick there it always gives me a "(Misc (2)) Cannot execute file: C:\Windows\Control.exe, 2" - error. Which is understandable, since i don't have a Control.exe in C:\Windows.
When i copy the Control.exe from system32 (where it *is* located on my PC) it works, but i still end up in the joy.cpl window, selecting the virtual stick, chosing it as the default device for older games, and being frustrated because Secret Ops still only recognizes the joystick.

EDIT: Ok, now i have an interesting situation. I connected my old sidewinder as well, which ended up on top in joy.cpl, and which is now the device used in Secret Ops. So it's not in alphabetical order, Sidewinder starts with an S, Logitech with an L. It isn't order of connection either, i tried dis- and reconnecting the other devices, they still end up the same place. Of course selecting either one of the Logitech devices or the virtual stick as the default controller for older games didn't have an effect this time either.
Sticks.jpg

Which made me think: What attribute *does* define where a device ends up in joy.cpl? Unfortunately Standoff always seems to use the device that's on top, and i am unable to change which one that is. Of course if i unplug everything but the virtual stick, it *would* be on top, but it wouldn't work without the programmed stick either.
Would anyone with Windows7, Secret Ops/Standoff and two joysticks please try the following:
Plug in BOTH joysticks, and make both of them work in the game. Not at the same time, but still with both plugged in. And tell me how he's do it.
 

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No joystick in the office, but I might have a some idea where to enforce this selection.

You can force a default controller in the windows registry;
HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\DeviceDisplayObject\HardwareId\HID_DEVICE_SYSTEM_GAME\Shell\GameController

Just see what value you get when plugging in the devices and/or isolate the Virtual Joystick, and set the proper value manually. Please do back up these registry values before altering or enforcing it.
 
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