Most overrated fighter?

Most overrated Fighter

  • Hellcat V

    Votes: 6 14.6%
  • Dragon

    Votes: 8 19.5%
  • Vampire

    Votes: 3 7.3%
  • Shrike

    Votes: 2 4.9%
  • Epee

    Votes: 4 9.8%
  • Morningstar

    Votes: 3 7.3%
  • Rapier (WC2)

    Votes: 3 7.3%
  • Crossbow

    Votes: 15 36.6%
  • Hornet

    Votes: 3 7.3%
  • Rapier (WC1)

    Votes: 4 9.8%

  • Total voters
    41

frostytheplebe

Seventh Part of the Seal
Everyone has their opinion on this one, for me, it's the damned Hellcat with the Vampire in a close second.

I don't know why everyone likes it, but the Hellcat appears in every single fan mod I've seen in production recently, (save Standoff). The weapons on this fighter, in Earlier WCs would have been impressive, but by this point, they just suck.

The fighter is boxy, and not very manueverable. I could fly rings around this thing in an older fighter I have no doubt.

On the Vampire... I have to say this fighter is way too unstable.

When using a joystick, I could fly with finess when it came to the Panther, but Vampire, if my hand shook a little, I'd lose my enemy target, plus the armor on it seemed to shed a lot quicker as well. Personally this thing is a step down from the Panther. I like the Tach/Ion loadout I have nicknamed the "Legacy Loadout" as it appears on the older fighters in the game as well, and it just seems more accurate then the new particle guns.
 

-danr-

Vice Admiral
I've made two choices here - the Hellcat, simply because it gained a small following back in 'the day' and I never really understood the charms of a fighter which was slower, less maneuverable and less flexible than it's predecessor the Rapier II.

Also, the Morningstar, don't get me wrong -- it's a fine craft, but it's often spoken of as a superfighter, when I've only ever found it to be...tolerable, to fly.
 

cff

Kilk'dymga'qith laq Ik'vikvi
1. Half of the ships from Armada, those whith extremely short range guns!
2. Raptor (prefer even a Hornet to that one)
3. Morningstar (give me a Sabre any day)
4. Excalibur (Thunderbolt, please!)
5. Hellcat (rather take an Arrow, thanks)
I am pretty happy with the rest, since noone named the Scimitar or the Epee overrated, ever.
 

Prometheus

Spaceman
Also, the Morningstar, don't get me wrong -- it's a fine craft, but it's often spoken of as a superfighter, when I've only ever found it to be...tolerable, to fly.

A while ago I explained the Morningstar to a friend using the words "almost a superfighter" ;)
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
I can argue for or against any fighter based on its qualities... but the only one which was literally *overrated* was the Crossbow. The game seemed to be promising us a truly amazing new ship to fly... and then you find out it's a Broadsword with an extra pair of guns.
 

Death

gh0d (Administrator)
The game seemed to be promising us a truly amazing new ship to fly... and then you find out it's a Broadsword with an extra pair of guns.

Except where it would count, in side turrets. :p

As for Hellcats often appearing in fan mods, whatever one thinks about it, it was a common fighter of the WC3/4 era, so unless the mod is not much more than just fanwank (*cough*PrivateerRemake*cough*), it's bound to be present should one be including a Confed side in the work.
 

frostytheplebe

Seventh Part of the Seal
I am pretty happy with the rest, since noone named the Scimitar or the Epee overrated, ever.

Disagree on the Scim, I LOVE IT!

The Epee is NOT overrated. It sucks on armor and everyone knows it. It has that rep.

Except where it would count, in side turrets. :p
As for Hellcats often appearing in fan mods, whatever one thinks about it, it was a common fighter of the WC3/4 era, so unless the mod is not much more than just fanwank (*cough*PrivateerRemake*cough*), it's bound to be present should one be including a Confed side in the work.

Well I agree that it should appear, but constantly being the primary craft... that just gets annoying.
 

Farbourne

Rear Admiral
Disagree about the Hellcat...in fact, I'm not sure that the Hellcat even deserves to be on the poll. To be "overrated" you have to have a large number of people saying something is better than it is...but I find very few people saying the Hellcat is very good at all. In fact, the Hellcat might be underrated, because everyone hates it so much, but it is actually a pretty useful fighter, especially versus Vaktoths and Kamrani's. (Honestly, how many people chose to fly the 'Cat consistently over the T-bolt or the Arrow in WC3?) What people seem to be voting on here is that the Hellcat sucks. Maybe it does. But since everyone agrees that it sucks, how can it be overrated?

For me, the Dragon comes close to being overrated. Everyone waxes about how it's such a wonderful fighter, but if you look past the abilities to infinitely cloak and afterburn, it's just a heavy fighter with a really big pair of guns. From a pure flying/dogfighting perspective, I'd perfer a Bearcat, or maybe even a Banshee. However, the infinite cloaking and afterburning are massive, unbalancing game changers, so the Dragon (i.e. Lance) isn't quite overrated.

The other ones that were close for me were the WC1 Rapier and (as another poster mentioned), the Prophecy Vampire, which, relative to their competition, are very similar. They're both awesome ships, yes, but not for the faint of heart. If you're not careful and very precise with your controls, you'll at best miss a lot because you overturn, and at worst collide with things...and their shields are good but armor is lacking. Plus, their gun loadouts are powerful but fire slower than their closest rivals (Raptor and Panther, respectively), requiring you to be far more precise with your gunnery to be effective. In short, I'd rather fly a Raptor than a Rapier, and a Panther than a Vampire.

But the Epee takes the cake. In WC2, we hear about how the Epee is this fancy new fighter that is insanely maneuverable, has nifty guns, and can even attack a capship. Outside WC2, I see people on these boards talking about how the love to fly the Epee, because they can snipe at enemies at super-long range. Then I got to fly one and find out that it has the wrong gun entirely for it's capabilites, and blows up if you look at it crosswise, and isn't even as fast as the lowly but reliable Ferret.
 

t.c.cgi

Vice Admiral
The Morningstar didn't feel like the experimental next-gen superiority fighter the game was telling me it was. This is of course with the hindsight of having flown the Excalibur, which absolutely screamed in combat.

The Dragon's problem was while it had a cloak and flashpacks and that charging cannon rig it didn't live up to the Excalibur. It felt like it was trying too hard to one-up the Excal but missing the point.
 

Farbourne

Rear Admiral
I can argue for or against any fighter based on its qualities... but the only one which was literally *overrated* was the Crossbow. The game seemed to be promising us a truly amazing new ship to fly... and then you find out it's a Broadsword with an extra pair of guns.

I actually disagree. When I first flew the Broadsword, I loved it...it was such a different experience. However, I was frustrated by it's insanely slow speed and lack of afterburners, and it's poor maneuverability...it made it hard to dogfight solo with a bunch of lighter fighters. I know this wasn't the purpose of the craft, but someone apparently forgot to tell the WC2 mission designers that :). (Or, perhaps, the Concordia flight ops planners). I still remember when I was a kid opining loudly to my fellow WC-playing friends that if they could just take a broadsword and make it a bit faster and more maneuverable and add an afterburner, they would have one heck of a fighter, and they could even lose the side turrets that I found almost useless if they needed to make a tradeoff. This was before seeing Special Operations. They my wish was (almost...still no afterburner) fulfilled in SO1 when I flew the Crossbow.

Another thing to consider is a point that Standoff made clear...even if the Crossbow is only marginally superior to a Broadsword, it's much, much smaller, making it possible for it to operate off lighter carriers, or for fleet carriers to carry larger wings of them. A ship with slightly superior capabilities at half the size...that is quite a revolution.
 

Prometheus

Spaceman
it made it hard to dogfight solo with a bunch of lighter fighters. I know this wasn't the purpose of the craft, but someone apparently forgot to tell the WC2 mission designers that :). (Or, perhaps, the Concordia flight ops planners).

Yeah, I really wonder what the Concordia flight ops planners were smoking sometimes...

Yes, sure, let's send a bomber, SOLO, into possibly hostile territory!!... :mad:
 

frostytheplebe

Seventh Part of the Seal
The Morningstar didn't feel like the experimental next-gen superiority fighter the game was telling me it was. This is of course with the hindsight of having flown the Excalibur, which absolutely screamed in combat.

The Dragon's problem was while it had a cloak and flashpacks and that charging cannon rig it didn't live up to the Excalibur. It felt like it was trying too hard to one-up the Excal but missing the point.

In the morningstars defense, it didn't feel like the next generation experimental fighter because it still had problems they were working out, no rear turret, jump failures, etc. You have to remember, there are experimental fighters that go into production as a success, and then their are failures as well.

I actually disagree. When I first flew the Broadsword, I loved it...it was such a different experience. However, I was frustrated by it's insanely slow speed and lack of afterburners, and it's poor maneuverability...it made it hard to dogfight solo with a bunch of lighter fighters. I know this wasn't the purpose of the craft, but someone apparently forgot to tell the WC2 mission designers that :). (Or, perhaps, the Concordia flight ops planners). I still remember when I was a kid opining loudly to my fellow WC-playing friends that if they could just take a broadsword and make it a bit faster and more maneuverable and add an afterburner, they would have one heck of a fighter.

I think you're missing the point. The Broadsword isn't, nor was it ever meant to be a fighter. It's a bomber. Think like the flying fortress or perhaps more accurately an SBD Dauntless. The Dauntless was a bomber, could she dogfight? To a certain extend, yes, but it wasn;t built to. It wasn't manueverable by any standards and it was a fairly slow plane. The Broadsword bomber gives you the feel of a WW2 bombing run. The explosions all around you as you go in for the kill, on the edge of your seat, hoping your armor holds out. I think it performed this quite well and for that, the BS holds a special place in my heart.

Plus when taking it against fighters, ya gotta use the turrets man, thats what they're their for, it is an absolute must!
and blows up if you look at it crosswise, .
this made me chuckle.
 

-danr-

Vice Admiral
But the Epee takes the cake. In WC2, we hear about how the Epee is this fancy new fighter that is insanely maneuverable, has nifty guns, and can even attack a capship. Outside WC2, I see people on these boards talking about how the love to fly the Epee, because they can snipe at enemies at super-long range. Then I got to fly one and find out that it has the wrong gun entirely for it's capabilites, and blows up if you look at it crosswise, and isn't even as fast as the lowly but reliable Ferret.

Yeah but the Ferret is a fast patrol/recon ship, whereas the Epee is a light attack fighter. To me, the Ferret always felt like a pretty basic ship, capable of getting the information it needs, then running away...the Mass drivers were only really any good if you had time to unload a full burst of firepower.

I'd much rather take on a Corvette with fighter escort in a lone Epee, a powerful set of cannons, torpedo capable, and hard to hit for two reasons - 1) Superb handling 2) Pilot determination not to die when the paper-thin armour gets shredded up.
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
The Dragon / Lance. Anyone could fly it with ease considering its armaments, cloaking device, speed. Its such a cheap ship to use it saps some of the fun out of the game.
 

frostytheplebe

Seventh Part of the Seal
The Dragon / Lance. Anyone could fly it with ease considering its armaments, cloaking device, speed. Its such a cheap ship to use it saps some of the fun out of the game.

Like it for one or two missions, after that, I'll fly the Vin. I love that bird. :D
 

t.c.cgi

Vice Admiral
In the morningstars defense, it didn't feel like the next generation experimental fighter because it still had problems they were working out, no rear turret, jump failures, etc. You have to remember, there are experimental fighters that go into production as a success, and then their are failures as well.

I'm talking strictly on its combat performance, not how it performs in the cutscenes and plot. It just felt like a regunned Rapier strapped onto a nuke.
 

Death

gh0d (Administrator)
As for Hellcats often appearing in fan mods, whatever one thinks about it, it was a common fighter of the WC3/4 era, so unless the mod is not much more than just fanwank (*cough*PrivateerRemake*cough*), it's bound to be present should one be including a Confed side in the work.
Well I agree that it should appear, but constantly being the primary craft... that just gets annoying.
But it was a primary craft. Light fighters only go so far (ignoring player vs AI experience), and you can only afford so many heavy fighters in terms of both hangar space and production cost. While the Hellcat wasn't all that great, it wasn't complete and utter piece of shit, either, and served as a passable compromise in a potentially chaotic environment as warfare. It could do a good number of jobs decently without too much difficulty, even if it wasn't great at any of those jobs.
 

Sylvester

Vice Admiral
Where does the Hellcat appear in Standoff? I've seen the Arrow (and flown it - to great delight in the missile intercept mission), but I never saw the Hellcat.
 

Highball

Spaceman
Disagree on the Scim, I LOVE IT!

I, too, have a soft spot in my heart for that slow ol' bucket of bolts. For whatever reason, the Scimitar is usually what springs to my mind first when remembering those good old days with my friend.

The only time I flew a Hellcat was in the first mission of WC3, when the game forced me to fly it. Once I learned the true awesomeness of the Arrow, I flew it almost exclusively, except in the missions I had to fly an Excalibur, or having the Thunderbolt's one torpedo was useful. Any other time, I was in an Arrow, baby, and loving it.

My vote for most overrated is cast to WC1's Rapier.
 
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