Morningstar or Sabre?

[Bandit LOAF]

Armada (which introduced the Arrow) had a super-fast, super-light Arrow... it could afterburn at 2,000 kps, but only had lasers and a pair of missiles.

The Wing Commander III novel talks about point defense Arrows and interceptor Arrows, but doesn't go into too much detail.

WC4 has Confed Arrows, Pirate Arrows and special Black Lance cloak Arrows.

Arena has three Arrows, apparently inspried by all of these...

 

[chanman]

That's way more info than I knew existed :O

Can you give us a detailed fighter timeline?

From playing WC1/WC2, here's what I have:

WC1
Hornet
Scimitar (retired after SM2)
Rapier (new)
Raptor

WC2
Ferret (upgraded in SO1)
Epee
Rapier (new version)
Sabre
Broadsword
Morningstar (prototype, SO2)
Crossbow (protoype, SO1)

Privateer

Stiletto (Gemini sector)
What else was active in that period?

 

[Tyrant]

Chanman: Gladius and Broadsword were definatly in the Gemini. Not sure about the rest. And as far as Armada goes, the Wraith was a kick ass smshing fighter, hey it was better than the Phantom(eew)

 

[Dundradal]

Chanman there's actually a lot of info on what you're asking about. LOAF can answer it the most thoroughly, but most "newer" fighters (ie what we think is new in WC3) isn't actually new. The Longbow and Arrow are actually fairly old at that point. It can be a little confusing, since you would think they are new, but WC continutity has a way of letting us know they aren't new, mostly in the form of WCA, since we see arrows and longbows flying around in 2654

 

[Ijuin]

The biggest distinctions between WC3 and WC4 Arrows was that the WC3 Arrows could carry eight light missiles (IR or HS), while the WC4 Arrows carried only four, and most of the WC4 Arrows had cloaking devices, so it's probable that they reduced the missiles to compensate. Both versions had the same level of shields and armor, and the same speed and agility, and packed Lasers and Ion guns

 

[chanman]

Chanman there's actually a lot of info on what you're asking about. LOAF can answer it the most thoroughly, but most "newer" fighters (ie what we think is new in WC3) isn't actually new. The Longbow and Arrow are actually fairly old at that point. It can be a little confusing, since you would think they are new, but WC continutity has a way of letting us know they aren't new, mostly in the form of WCA, since we see arrows and longbows flying around in 2654

That's what I've gathered. I suspect that the change in fighters might have to do with the 3D engine limitations in rendering WC2-era fighters, since it leaves the questions of why the Ferret, Epee, and Arrow all simultaneously coexisted, or why they have enough Broadswords for general policing duties in Gemini, but would use the older Longbow later.

I thought the Gladius was a militia-only fighter in Privateer? I didn't list the Broadsword in Gemini because it made its first appearance in WC2. I'm kinda surprised they bothered making so many new fighters for Privateer. The militia could just as easily have flown Ferrets, and they could have given the Confed the WC2 destroyers and Rapier/Sabre/Epee in lieu of the Stiletto and Paradigm.

Okay, okay, I know they probably figured that new ships are cool and a new game deserves new ships

 

[Drizzt Do Urden]

Well, there's also the Gothri, a ship that felt like a reverse-engineered Sabre, right down to the missile loadouts.

The designer who decided to pit you against them while flying a Crossbow was just plain sadistic.

I agree with this statement 100% sadistic

 

[Tyrant]

What was so bad about Crossbow Vs Gothri? I only played Wc2 and So2.

 

[Drizzt Do Urden]

The Gothri could tear a crossbow to pieces in seconds.

 

[NinjaLA]

pfft.. you just weren't good enough, I could tear through a gothri in a tarsus

 

[chanman]

Gothri ==> Sabre with weaker turret guns and Morningstar levels of durability (much stronger shields and side armour compared to the Sabre) Identical guns and similar missile loadout compared to the Sabre.

Crossbow ==> A faster, but still afterburner less Broadsword with only a rear turret. Lots of front guns (Mass Drivers and Neutron guns), but bad visibility, bad turn rate.

 

[Death]

There's also another problem with the Crossbow, namely that while the neutron/MD combo hits hard when it connects, the guns are apparently fed off of a thimble of a gun capacitor, so that after a couple of bursts your energy reserve is drained, and the target will usually have the speed advantage to break contact and recover, especially if aiming errors result in the Crossbow pilot not connecting with every round (thus limiting damage).

 

[chanman]

yes, there is that. It's fun being able to smack down light fighters in a couple shots, but a lot less fun when you take down their shields and find yourself completely out of juice.

 

[Tyrant]

~~~, the only thing I know about the Crossbow is the fact that its kinda effictive in the K-gauntlet in Standoff(I dont know if I like it anymore than the Broadsword, though.)

 

[Vinman]

There's also another problem with the Crossbow, namely that while the neutron/MD combo hits hard when it connects, the guns are apparently fed off of a thimble of a gun capacitor, so that after a couple of bursts your energy reserve is drained, and the target will usually have the speed advantage to break contact and recover, especially if aiming errors result in the Crossbow pilot not connecting with every round (thus limiting damage).

Yeah, that was always my biggest issue with the crossbow, so I usually used the mass drivers and used it like a nimbler broadsword

 

[Tyrant]

So all the Crossbow really is a slightly faster and smaller Broadsword? Then what's the point?

 

[chanman]

So all the Crossbow really is a slightly faster and smaller Broadsword? Then what's the point?

They needed a new ship for Secret Ops 1, but not one so powerful that it would remove the challenge.

When you get to SO2, they give the player a Morningstar, but set you against more high end fighters - Gothris, Sabres, Grikaths

 

[Quarto]

Looking back, I think that was a really great thing about the Crossbow - that it wasn't a remarkably special new ship, it was just a new ship. You could see in what ways it was better than the Broadsword (after all, with the Crossbow, you really could go up against Khasra and his Gothri friends - with the Broadsword, that would be a far bigger challenge), but it wasn't that much more powerful, and the improvements came at a price (those side turrets were pretty useful).

They managed to do the same thing with the Morningstar, too - apart from the Mace, it wasn't some incredible new super-fighter either. I mean, people to this day debate whether the Morningstar was better than the Sabre - how great is that? In games like Freelancer, every time you got a new ship, they made sure that it was better in every way so that you wouldn't have any doubts about ugrading - and who can remember any ships from Freelancer these days?

 

[NinjaLA]

not I

 

[chanman]

Looking back, I think that was a really great thing about the Crossbow - that it wasn't a remarkably special new ship, it was just a new ship. You could see in what ways it was better than the Broadsword (after all, with the Crossbow, you really could go up against Khasra and his Gothri friends - with the Broadsword, that would be a far bigger challenge), but it wasn't that much more powerful, and the improvements came at a price (those side turrets were pretty useful).

They managed to do the same thing with the Morningstar, too - apart from the Mace, it wasn't some incredible new super-fighter either. I mean, people to this day debate whether the Morningstar was better than the Sabre - how great is that? In games like Freelancer, every time you got a new ship, they made sure that it was better in every way so that you wouldn't have any doubts about ugrading - and who can remember any ships from Freelancer these days?

Ugh, I hated that about Freelancer. It led to questions like why no one was beating the crap out of Liberty when their fighters sucked so much

In all honesty, stats-wise, the Morningstar is a better fighter, but it's also a bit sterile, like the Gothri.

The Sabre is powerful, but has its weak spots (relatively thin shields, weak side armour), and you really get to bond with it taking it out on the Kilrathri. (Ditto defending friendly warships against those Grikaths).

The Morningstar is kinda the Sabre with the wrinkles ironed out and a cleaner look with less ordnance. It makes a great pure fighter, but the Sabre is just all-around awesome.

If anything, the Morningstar is an early Tomcat or Eagle or Su-27 Air-to-Air above all else (I'm aware that later upgrades changed the capabilities of those planes).

The Sabre really feels like the F-4E in the mid-late 70's - a grand old bird able to do what you want, when and where you want it to.