First, it looks like the BW has (at least) doubled the number of systems it has compared to the Prophecy map. Could you list for me all the BW systems that aren't on the map, and those that are?
Original Map
Cabrea
Telamon
Racene
Harrison
Bradbury
Repleetah
Shelton
Wetland
McCaffrey
Bistangio/Bistango
Trafalgar
Circe
Granita
Veronica
Antares
Ayers
Ross 34F
Epsilon Prime
Peleus
Chanel
Canewdon
Torgo
Deneb
Baird's Star
Tartarus
Dakota
Hellespont
Tyr
Kurasawa
Nephele
Loki VI
Mylon
Segallion
Elohim
Ymir
Nifleheim
Additions
New Plains
Liz
Piece
Treadway
Qatar III
Qatar II
Wunch
Zartoff
Cartel
Mara II
Isilbit
Celtic
Rollins III
Endigo
Klondar III
Dannen
Repton
Gundel
Endo
Anrtope
Donner
Kaltar
Telcorra
Cunning
Zantha I
Kronos II
Ulvatta
Mopac I
Lurro II
Frote
Yarra
Lambo
Vantage
Kalisto
Abel I
War I
Lod
Darah
Hephar
Nimbus
Sanctuary III
Worram I
Worram III
Leyton
Second , if someone had to get to from Orestes to Niflelhiem in a big hurry, what would you reckon as the shortest route, taking into account both the number of jumps and the distances (if known) in real space between the jump points?
The quicest route is: Orestes-Silenos-Torgo-Loki-Nifleheim
First: several Pilgrim systems were already on the WCP map.
In fact, the entire Pilgrim heirarchy is *based* on the the WCU map and the fact that "McDaniel's World" is surrounded by spiritual-sounding systems. When McCubbin did the hanbook, he named the creator of the Pilgrim religion McDaniel because of this, and based the events of the Pilgrim War around these systems... and then Telep continued this further when he explored Pilgrim mythology in 'Stars'.
I'm under the impression that Confed will assist the Kilrathi in the event of an attack (remember WCP?
Prophecy does, in fact, claim that they are our allies (Paladin's letter).
I'll take your word for it, since I haven't bothered reading it. I don't think it's worthwhile adding Candar, since it is a simulator... but I suppose it makes sense to name the starbase after the real one to instill a sense of urgency in defence in training pilots.
This brings up a new fish -- what, by the way of Confed systems, do we add?
My first reaction would be only things that are called a system, or are followed by a number. Creighton 2 -- fine, that definately means there's a Creighton System. Candar Station? Not necessarily, since stations and systems don't always match up.
But then: Action Station states that the Confederation "is hundreds, thousands of systems" -- do we fill in blank spaces with things like Kentari or Leydos?
I don't think it was a 'fake' jump - it's not too hard to imagine the Steltek as being so knowledgable that they can jump to any place in one go. But I suppose you could still mark a special jump from Nitir (I think) to Delta Prime).
That's very good thinking. I have to check the Privateer Guide to see what it says about the jump, but if it doesn't comment, then this is how I'll do it.
Grayson's story? I should have thought of that. Where might that be, since it's obviously not in Gemini? One of the spinward sectors? (Or counter-spinward, I really can't remember which way it goes on the WCP map. Whichever side is furthest away from the Kilrathi front.)
I would pick Avalon, since it's 'next' to Gemini (Retros seem to be a fairly local problem...), and it's unexplored.
Now then... first up, Enigma long jumps. Here's my suggestions, LOAF - one link from Enigma to Ella. Why Ella? Well, I figure this would explain the (later?) decision to build the Ella Superbase there. It's not very deep in Sol Sector, but it's only two jumps from Sol System, so it should be deep enough. A second link I would suggest to Epsilon Prime. In this case, my reasoning is that Epsilon Prime is important enough to warrant the renaming of an entire sector, so there's gotta be something there...
I think this is a good idea -- although I'd also like to add a jump into Kilrathi space in the Epsilon Sector -- since Angel says Enigma black hole was valuable to Confed for the same reason it was valuable to the Kilrathi...
I would also suggest a third link, to Landreich, and more specifically to either Vordran or Black Hole System 299. Both of these systems are clearly very special (dunno what's special about Vordran, but there's gotta be some anomaly there, given the freakishly huge number of jumps), and I would figure that there would be a fairly high chance of a jump link forming between any anomalous systems.
I've got to nix these three, because the text specifies that there are no jumps to Confed space from Vordran and BH299 -- and the importance of the Landreich should be downplayed... it's not *supposed* to be strategic at all.
Next... the double jump. This is a difficult issue, since we don't exactly know what a double-jump means. Hmm... doesn't the Angel mission (where we jump ahead in Broadswords) happen right after the double jump, yet still in Tesla? Bah, my WC2 memory is fuzzy, and I'm away from my normal computer and WC2 this week. Gotta check the guide about this one. Still, if the double-jump does in fact start in Tesla, then Blake sounds like a good half-way point.
To the best of my recollection (after checking the guide and script
), Blair and Angel jump *directly* to the Tesla System -- while the Concordia 'double-jumps' to get the Kilrathi off her trail. (Jumps from Enigma to somewhere and then immediately to Tesla)... and then you meet up.
Hari... I don't see much point mapping out all 1000 systems, simply because this would take much too much time and space (besides, judging from the height of that number, what we know as the Hari Sector is probably actually a whole bunch of sectors). Best if you map out the known jump links from FA and leave it at that.
For now, at least <G>
Hellespont-Sol - definitely don't put in a jump link like that.
Agreed.
Probably a few other issues I've forgotten about (and yeah, thanks for the Rarkath jump link ), but I'm tired, so just one final note - I don't think that trying to map out Kilrathi clans is a very good idea (at this stage). We don't know enough about who owns what. Also, I think the eight do own systems... I vaguely recall a book reference to one of the clan leaders being unhappy because his systems were almost all at the frontlines. Anyway, we just don't have enough info to attempt to map out clan ownership.
The eight noble clans own *everything* -- and Kilrathi derive their names from locations. Were you a commoner born on Ghorah Khar, you'd be Quarto nar Ghorah Khar. The eight noble clans rule the empire, but they were all created *before* the Kilrathi reached space -- so Caxki/Ki'ra/Ragitagha/etc must all be places local to Kilrah. Other names (nar Val, nar Tsal, etc) probably come from planets...
LOAF, started reading thorugh End Run after I looked at all the notes in this thread (my head is starting to hurt ) I saw your comment about End Run not getting systems and sectors straight. Not sure how you want to use it or where you want to put it, but Thrak makes a reference in End Run (p. 139, last two words on the page) to the Ujarka Sector. I assume he misspoke and meant to tell them Ujarka System He had just found out about Vular Tag and was giving an order to have the home fleet assemble there. I didn't see an Ujarka listed anywhere, but may have missed it.
Thank you, this is indeed a useful reference.
Why the hell did they create the Pilgrims?
To create an obstacle and backstory for a main character who lacked both of such things in the movie. The 'concept' of Pilgrims stems from the idea of discrimination against Border Worlders in WCIV (in the first draft of the script, Blair is discriminated against because he's a Border Worlder with unique Border World powers).
first, why are you redoing the systems? the wcp map is wrong?
No map in history has ever remained current.
I mean, i know you are adding the ones mentioned in the books, but why redo, for example, enigma? Its already on the map representing what its said of it by the number of jump lines, and how far they reach out
Well... try finding the Talbot System on the original map -- you actually go there in Wing Commander 2!
other thing, those pilgrim systems...you intend to mix up real wc with movie wc? I mean, cmon, its not the same thing you could put in separated or something
Real WC? Movie WC? You so crazy.
I also checked some of the systems...there is one odd thing
some systems that are under one government´s control, but doesnt even have jumps back to other systems from that government
I know I saw a BW system inside confed space with no jump to UBW worlds, and 3 (I think) kat systems with conections only to confed systems
aint that at least odd?
There are issues like this on the Armada maps, which haven't been connected to the rest of the world yet.
LOAF, where are you "working" now? Did you finish down at Texas?
No, I'm waiting on more eye surgery back here... eventually I'll go back to Texas, I hope. I'm working a very, very easy job at Montgomery College in Rockville (assistant in the English department) <G>
Anyhow, read through a good bit of Freedom Flight on the train into the office this morning. Couldn't find any references to any additional systems or descriptions of how one gets from one location to another.
Thank you kindly, that was a big help.