Milk Run...

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Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
What an odd thing for someone who is CONSTANTLY DOING THE SAME THING to say.
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It is, isn't it? :)

...Well, no. Because what I'm doing is different.

("Yeah, Quarto, sure it is")

Yes, it is. I state my opinions, and I don't pretend that they're anything other than my opinions. Forstchen creates characters and events that not only get his opinions across, but actually make it seem like they're facts rather than just his opinions.
I know that it's impossible to write a politically-neutral book - the writer's views always find a way into the text, no matter how hard he tries to avoid preaching. But this, this is too sneaky.
If he was writing specifically to get his view across - that is, writing political fiction and/or proper science fiction - that would be fine, because the readers would be expecting to receive more than just a good story. This was not the case, though - what he wrote was pulp sci-fi. His readers weren't expecting to get a lecture about the advantages of Republicanism - they were expecting a good WC story, and nothing more. As such, they were much more willing to accept his ideas without thinking about them.
In short, when I buy a WC novel, I want to pay for a WC novel, not for blatant political propaganda.
 
Originally posted by Quarto

  • But this, this is too sneaky.
  • I want to pay for a WC novel, not for blatant political propaganda.
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BEWARE BILL FORSTCHEN AND HIS BLATANT SNEAKINESS!!!!@@!@!!
 
That's the thing, Quarto...you don't HAVE to pay for them. You don't have to buy them. How much political drama is in the damn action scenes? None.

How is it TOO sneaky? It's not sneaky, it's clever. Pretty slick of him, really. What are you complaining about? He puts them out not just to make money, but for your enjoyment. If you don't like it, don't buy it!
 
Frosty, at least try to be more creative with your insults. Yes, I know that 'sneaky' and 'blatant' are opposites, but I never said that he actually succeeded in being sneaky - just that he tried to be.

Originally posted by Nep Parth
How is it TOO sneaky? It's not sneaky, it's clever. Pretty slick of him, really. What are you complaining about? He puts them out not just to make money, but for your enjoyment. If you don't like it, don't buy it!
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It would be pretty slick for a presidential candidate to put subliminal messages in Coke commercials too, but somehow I don't think people would approve. The same in this case - sure, it's slick of him, but it's wrong.
"Don't read it" is not a valid argument. There's nothing on the books' covers to prepare you for books about Forstchen's political opinions. The blurbs talk all about WC stuff, but they doesn't say anything about Republicanism. Therefore, when I choose to read what is described as a WC novel, and find that I'm reading a lecture about why Forstchen's favourite political system is the best, "don't read it" does not apply. I can't choose not to read something that I didn't know is there, right?
 
I don't understand the complaint... you're saying that people shouldn't be allowed to put their opinions in books they write? That just doesn't make sense.
 
Okay, I just don't know what you're talking about. I don't recall Forstchen preaching about the benefits of Republicanism. Nor do I know how it's presented. I mean, if he can give good reasons why such is true, then there ain't anything wrong with that.
 
I don't think he really *preaches*, either... he's telling the story of military characters, and that's how military officers *actually* feel...

No one thinks or has feelings different from his own in Quarto-World. :)
 
Quarto's overreacting again.

Quarto, look at WC4. Are the politicians portrayed in a very good light in the game? No, they are generally shown as pandering idiots, eager to swallow whatever they think might get them more camera time. It is the same way in Forstchen's books. He portrays pretty much all politicians as idiots and jackasses. Perhaps not entirely accurate, but pretty close.
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
I don't think he really *preaches*, either... he's telling the story of military characters, and that's how military officers *actually* feel...

No one thinks or has feelings different from his own in Quarto-World. :)
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Well said. Few of the soldiers I know like politicians in any way. Come to think of it, not all of the civilians I know do either...
 
Ahem...

Originally posted by Quarto
Frosty, at least try to be more creative with your insults. Yes, I know that 'sneaky' and 'blatant' are opposites, but I never said that he actually succeeded in being sneaky - just that he tried to be.
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OK, A: That wasn't an insult, and B: you're wrong.

You didn't say he tried to be sneaky about it but failed, you said:

I know that it's impossible to write a politically-neutral book - the writer's views always find a way into the text, no matter how hard he tries to avoid preaching. But this, this is too sneaky.
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Meaning the "preaching" is too sneaky. And then you said:

I want to pay for a WC novel, not for blatant political propaganda.
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Meaning the books are blatant political propaganda.

Now, where I come from, blatant is the opposite of sneaky :)
 
Originally posted by Bob McDob
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I wish you people would quit with the pointless posts already. How many times do I have to point out the bit in the rules about silly posts?

(Edit) And quit quoting absurd amounts of text too.
 
Hades is right, as Quarto would say, "Quit blatantly sneaking your silliness down our collective throats!"




[Edited by Frosty on 05-06-2001 at 19:15]
 
Originally posted by Quarto
Frosty, at least try to be more creative with your insults. Yes, I know that 'sneaky' and 'blatant' are opposites, but I never said that he actually succeeded in being sneaky - just that he tried to be.

Originally posted by Nep Parth
How is it TOO sneaky? It's not sneaky, it's clever. Pretty slick of him, really. What are you complaining about? He puts them out not just to make money, but for your enjoyment. If you don't like it, don't buy it!
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It would be pretty slick for a presidential candidate to put subliminal messages in Coke commercials too, but somehow I don't think people would approve. The same in this case - sure, it's slick of him, but it's wrong.
"Don't read it" is not a valid argument. There's nothing on the books' covers to prepare you for books about Forstchen's political opinions. The blurbs talk all about WC stuff, but they doesn't say anything about Republicanism. Therefore, when I choose to read what is described as a WC novel, and find that I'm reading a lecture about why Forstchen's favourite political system is the best, "don't read it" does not apply. I can't choose not to read something that I didn't know is there, right?
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I just have to say that Subliminal Messages do not exist, the study that was done and everybody has listened to has been discredited and many more studies have shown opposite results
 
I stand corrected it was a semantics problem since as a scientist (aspiring at least) I must remember never to use words like "never, doesn't exist, prove, positive, cannot, and does"
 
i wasnt correcting you just to be a jerk. its just that i bemieve that it might be possible. If i knew how i would make a nice little video for those guys at origin and EA :D
 
Napoleon: Don't quote large amounts of text, as Hades has already said :). And whether or not they exist is irrelevant - they're an example that most people understand, so they're good enough.

Frosty: He tries to be sneaky in that he tries to insert political messages where really shouldn't be any, but he fails - therefore, he's blatant. I suppose my phrasing was wrong, in that he didn't actually succeed in being sneaky, it is a pretty unimportant mistake though, since it's easy enough to work out what I meant. But hey, if you've got nothing better to do during your day than point out grammatical errors...

LOAF: That "Quarto-World" comment is just pathetic. And no, of course I'm not saying that writers shouldn't be allowed to put their opinions in their books. Heck, I had already said that before, so it's surprising that you didn't understand what I said.

Now, how does he preach, or rather, why do I think he preaches? Just about all civilians in these novels are portrayed as idiots and jackasses - not just the politicians. Whether they're reporters, ordinary people or politicians, apparently they're all fools (except Kruger, respected by all... but then, he's an almost perfect example of a Republican... get my drift?). Yes, soldiers don't usually have much respect for politicians (though probably not because they're soldiers - rather because they're like the rest of us ;)). But if they had that much contempt for civilians, they wouldn't put their lives on the line for them - so the portrayal is inaccurate. That's obviously not how military officers *actually* feel. Forstchen seems to do quite a lot of research for his books, so it's hard to believe that that's just a mistake on his part.
Fenris, where exactly does WC4 show us politicians? For more than a few seconds, that is :). I hardly see why the brief moments with politicians during WC4 would lead anyone to believe that politicians are pandering idiots. Actually, it does show very nicely that they're just as normal as the rest of us... jumping to conclusions about the unknown, and willing to believe anyone who offers a logical explanation.
 
I'd talk about how insulting people makes you a bad moderator. But you're not a moderator anymore, so that'd be a silly, silly thing for me to say.
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF
I'd talk about how insulting people makes you a bad moderator. But you're not a moderator anymore, so that'd be a silly, silly thing for me to say.
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I wasn't aware of having insulted anyone... unless you meant to say that being insulted makes you a bad moderator... ah, but I guess this is something to discuss off the board.
 
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