Kilrathi Music

Sphynx

Commodore
LeHah,

Yes, that is exactly what I mean. Thanks for catching my mistake. I was mingling my Latin and my Portuguese, together with my own lousy spelling and fatigue (we've been training my son to sleep through the night, so sleep deprivation is beginning to set in). That Day of Judgement theme is very prevalent, used in everything from action movies to cartoons (there is a strain of it that goes through the sound track of Crimson Tide, to name one. It was even used in one place in the Smurf's Christmas special when Gargomel appeared on screen doing something dasterdly, as I recall. It was also featured in the Animaniacs episode in which they accidentally end up in hell and drive Satan nuts). I'm glad you are familiar with it. It speaks of a day of wrath and burning to come, and begs for the singer to be spaired from that fate. It's tone fits well with what the Kilrathi are planning to do to Earth, and with what ends up happening to Kilrah. Quite fitting, I'd say.
 

Needaham45

Spaceman
The problem is that I still want it to sound Kilrathi - I want it to be something they would produce, and not a "bad guys theme". That's why I'm experimenting. I could write stuff that would sound good for the Kilrathi in the perspective of them being the bad guys, but it might be nice to hear something that is actually Kilrathi in nature. I'm not saying I'm deffinately going to do it, I'm just experimenting.

And also, atonal isn't necessary dissonant, although it generally allows for itself to be more dissonant than the average, say, Bach chorale. Believe it or not, there were a few atonal things in UE - part of the battle music got a little atonal, and there were a few other little things here and there that were atonal, and generally the reaction wasn't bad - it was that they fit in for the mood I was trying to create. I everyone needs to keep that in mind. Atonal music is a very broad classification. What I'm doing would be considered atonal only because I'm not using a conventional diatonic scale.

Think of it like some of Bartok's music - it was certainly atonal, but not all of it was all that dissonant. A lot of it sounded fine to the untrained ear, it just wasn't diatonic in nature. It didn't follow the conventional rules of key.

Some people will classify Hindemith as atonal, although others disagree. The tonal center shifts so rapidly at times it may seem atonal.

Atonality really encompasses a very broad range of music. And like I keep saying, this is only the first in a series of experiments.
 

Edfilho

Cry some more!
Why do people keep repeating the same things?
1) Needaham already told us it's not 100% atonal. Actually, his latest descriptions sound pretty interesting.
2)HE IS NOT MAKING A BAD GUY'S THEME. So things like the sound track of your favourite movie with russias or something ARE NOT GOOD for his project.

Thanks for listening.
 

Sphynx

Commodore
Okay, I get it. This isn't about what we would use to represent the Kilrathi, it's more about what music would sound like that Kilrathi would make? Well, have at it then. Certainly it's open territory. I'd be interested in hearing what you come up with. Keep us posted. Your description sounds interesting.
 

Needaham45

Spaceman
I'm trying. It's pretty difficult. ;)

While this is about the kind of music the Kilrathi would make, its also about your ideas as to what kind of music they would make. "I think they would probably make music like __________ because ___________." However, it would be correct to say that while I am interested, for this project knowing what someone would use for the Kilrathi isn't so important. Unless of course, they would use it for a certain reason because they thought the Kilrathi would produce something like it.
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
Sphynx said:
LeHah,

Yes, that is exactly what I mean. Thanks for catching my mistake. I was mingling my Latin and my Portuguese, together with my own lousy spelling and fatigue (we've been training my son to sleep through the night, so sleep deprivation is beginning to set in).

Actually, you had the good fortune of making a mistake I could correct. I know a lot of big, fancy words and theories and ideas involving music - but if you put sheet in front of me, the first thing out of my mouth would be "Uhh..."
 

Sphynx

Commodore
LeHah,

Let's be thankful that our ignorance didn't overlap! :D I read music well and perform well, but my music theory is a little rusty.

Back on topic, I think Kilrathi music would include a lot of ballads to warriors whose names are written in the tome of Sivar. Although I might say, a Kilrathi love song would be interesting!
 

LightNinja

Spaceman
The music of red october isn't just a bad guys theme... it's music with russian choirs, but sound's pretty amazing and not like "the music for the bad guys" but like music from russia and the same time music which sounds very good, it's kinda martial and very "warm"... You get a warm feeling when hearing that music. So it's simply not a "bad guys theme"...
Also "bad guys themes" can become very popular, think about the Imperial March from Star Wars. And i think the Galactic Empire could even uses this for their own purposes, for such things as military parades... only because It's written in moll doesn't mean it's "just another bad guy theme"

LightNinja
 

Needaham45

Spaceman
This is true, but I'm looking to try a different spin on it. All that's been done before. How about hearing some music for the Kilrathi that sounds like the Kilrathi would have written it.
 

Mjr. Whoopass

<FONT color=lightblue><B>I was going to say someth
I have a degree in music composition, so I'm familiar with alot of atonal music and the music of different cultures. It seems that the Kilrathi would almost undoubtedly have a totally different style and scale. One thing to consider though is your audience who wouldn't appreciate a Harry Parch or Shoenberg sound. It's realistic to make a different sound, but then WC games were never focused on realism but rather mass appeal. Also there's the KISS idea to keep in mind (keep it simple silly) so that you can actually complete the project.
There are certain things that it seems the Kilrathi would undoubtedly have: since the Kilrathi culture seems to value the hunt and battles, they would probably have alot of horns- possibly originally from animals (i.e. ram's horns). Horns were also developed and used in battle- The roman empire did alot to develop the trumpet sounds we use today because of their value in battle (for signalling commands as well as troop morale). I agree that percussion probably would play an important part.
Another crucial trait of the Kilrathi is their claws- which are basically natural guitar picks. They would've probably developed alot of stringed instruments made primarily for plucking (very hard steel so it wouldn't break from the claws- giving it a louder and harsher sound). They probably would've added eight or so note strumming patterns and polyphony from their many claws. Forming a chord would be tough with all those claws, so they may have used simple bar chords. An interesting sound might be to take a harp piece (which a human's 10 finger's pluck) put it into a synth program and give it a harsh electric guitar sound (they were as technologically developed as us, so they prob. used electric sounds as well). Or just compose the background music as if writing for a harp and choose a harsh plucked sound from your synth.
 

Malar

Spaceman
It must sound simply alien (I know, that doesn't help further).
Don't forget their psychology and their values - the thematic and musication which the soundtrack should based on.
But it should be ingame music, right?
Then don't lose the continuation of the sound. Use the scheme of your ususal orchestra score and add some "Kilrathi sounding tunes" to it. Better than a completely strange music which the gamer could be confused/take too much attention in the middle of an encounter with our furry friends.

For the Kilrathi sounds, I would suggest some hissing and scratching sound realized with flute instruments like Didgeridoos (!) and harps and even the use of guitarstrings (I'm probably unable to give for this subject a better conclusion than Mjr Whoopass). It must hear cacophonic/symphonic in the same way. Like authenticly originated from alien predator tigerlions. Simply in a way of ritualistic sound of warfare/crusade (as if the this the only thinkable fate of their warfaring followers). Sadly I have now no real life examples which may help. If composed, then compile this sound elements into a common game soundtrack styled title.
But the easiest way to make music which associate someone immediately with KILRATHI, is to make a resemblance of old tracks, like the Kilrathi Theme of WC2 or WC3 which were both great.
 

Grimloc

Rear Admiral
Picking up where Mjr. Whoopass left off, I would imagine a civilization based primarily on conquest would have a whole slew of brass instruments by this stage in evolution. The horns we know and love these days were once used to signal and rally your troops and spook your enemies. I'm not sure they'd bother with inventing a valve system given the only reason our valve systems were invented was to expand the trumpet's/horn's musical use; valves would be a hinderance on the battlefield. Making horns for specific pitches would suffice. I have a mental image of a Kilrathi hornline overlooking a battlefield, playing monstrous Roman corni in varying pitches. If you want an idea for a large brass instrument, think of a valveless Sousaphone with the overall size of a subcontrabass tuba (Google it, folks. It's huge.).

I'll actually agree with the Gladiator, Last Samurai and Pearl Harbor fans, to an extent. Hans Zimmer contributed very well with his music to reinforce the image of the Romans and the Japanese as militaristic conquest-driven civilizations, qualities shared with our fictional Kilrathi. His use of drums should be considered at least. I know you're after "music" the Kilrathi would create, but I think they would create music similar in some respects to selections from these movies, albeit less orchestral; something they could chant to, something that would build them up before battle. Drums, low brass, etc.
 

Needaham45

Spaceman
So far my experiment has included a lot of brass - especially trombones. Trombone's can get that really nasty, loud, brash, low brass sound so I've been using them a lot along with distortion guitar (in some ways the nasty, raucus sound it can get is similar to the trombones). I'm using some soprano sax and flute a lot for the upper register stuff. Every culture on earth seems to have developed its own ethnic flute - its a very simple concept for an instrument, so I figured Kilrah would have its own flute too. Actually, the synthetic scale that I'm using came mostly from the idea of a Kilrathi holding your basic tin-whistle type flute. How their claws would fit on it along with some physics of sound to think about how all that would have an impact on pitch. The soprano sax just strikes me as a Kilrathi sound. It has something of a brassy quality to it (keeping in line with our horn ideas) but offers more playablity (for faster passages I imagine the Kilrathi would probably like at times), and gives me another tambre in the high register. In terms of percussion I've been staying away from snares as much as possible, and I've been focusing on toms, timpani, and chimes. Toms are a natural drum design every culture (and I imagine every species) would have developed. Timpani is an extention of that idea, giving me some proper pitches. There's a lot of drums - think of it like war drums. Bell-like instruments would probably be used ritualistically (the same way we use them to mark the beginning of a mass in church), so I threw in the chimes. I also have some strings going to fill out chords - the sound just seemed to fit in with everything else I was already using.

This experiment right now is based in something almost tribal - a ritualistic dance maybe? I was also thinking something programmatic - something that would be used to retell the story of a battle musically so there's a lot of 'battles' between musical ideas and sections with some good old organized chaos at times.

I'm not going Harry Parch or Schoenberg - at least not yet. You're right - the audience probably wouldn't like it very much. Although, I must say, I love Harry Parch's stuff. there's something about it - gives you so many emotional shades. What really blew my mind was hearing the true 7th - the 7th from the harmonic series. And then not feeling like it needed a resolution when played with the tonic. That blew my mind.
 

Mjr. Whoopass

<FONT color=lightblue><B>I was going to say someth
Sounds like you have some great ideas Needaham45 :). People do seem to be alot more accepting of exotic instruments than they are exotic styles. But if you're music is rhythmically emphasised on a 2/4 or 4/4 rhythm, I think people might be more willing to accept different scales/etc..
something that would be used to retell the story of a battle musically
I actually thought of this when making my last post.. they prob. would have a few songs retelling the hunt or battles.. even our culture has music symbolizing the hunt and battles. An interesting battle song is a chanson written in the 1500's by Clement Janequin called "La Guerre". It was written to commemorate the Battle of Marignano in 1515. Vocals immitate the battle sounds like horns and drums. It was written partially to kiss the French King's ass- which Kilrathi composers would undoubtedly do for their Emperor.
 
Top