Kilrathi Grand Fleet...could it have been stopped?

According to the novel there were only four squadrons: one captured by the Border Worlds, one lost at the weapons factory and two onboard the Vesuvius at the end.
 
All those fighters on Axius were on the Vesivius in the end? They were there before the Vesivius arrived.

EDIT: Foward patrol, or transfer. It makes you wonder, however, why there were only hellcats on that last missions.
 
Probably because it wouldn't have been fun to fly against two full squadrons of dragons when we could have more fun blowing up 50 or so hellcats...
 
A ship is only as good as it's crew, a fleet only as useful as it's commander.
 
Thats

"Carriers don't fly themselves, Admiral."
"Quite, quite right Colonel. It is the men, isn't it?"

I wasn't quoting or even coining. It's just a well-known fact, like Richard Gere and hampsters.
 
Still de Dragon is quite a formidable craft. And yet again, it's shields and armor are unmatched. These craft could seriously cripple a cat fleet.
 
But it still comes back to the matter of money. Dragons are expensive to manufacture and I would assume also to maintain. Although it is odd that we don't see atleast one fighter with some of the dragons refinements (possibly a newer generation fighter sized M/AM engine)
 
Dundradal said:
Dragons are expensive to manufacture and I would assume also to maintain.
IIRC, Pliers in either the game or the novel comments on how they can almost 'take care of themselves' where maintenance is concerned.

C-ya
 
Viper61 said:
IIRC, Pliers in either the game or the novel comments on how they can almost 'take care of themselves' where maintenance is concerned.

C-ya

Except that, while they 'almost maintain themselves' when it comes to ease of maintenance, you still need to replace parts or do minor repairs or refitting after each mission to keep them performing at their best. Remember that there's combat damage to consider, along with the usual problems inflicted by high-g maneuvering, and the resulting stresses that'll put on the frame.

They're going to cost more, especially being 'beyond cutting edge' craft.

Colonel Jim said:
Still de Dragon is quite a formidable craft. And yet again, it's shields and armor are unmatched. These craft could seriously cripple a cat fleet.

Actually, the Black Vampire and upgraded Vampires in WCSO and WCP both match it in terms of shielding, exceed it in terms of firepower and missile loadout, and far outstrip it as far as maneuverability is concerned. They're rather like the conceptual mating of the Bearcat (high-maneuverability frames designed for dogfighting) and Dragon (powerful shield and guns plus some capship-killing capabilities) concepts. And they're even cloakable, though the cloaks don't work against the bugs.

Check the script on Wedge009's site - he has the audio clip where Stiletto and Maestro discover our cloaks don't work against the Nephilim's sensor suites.


Dundradal said:
But it still comes back to the matter of money. Dragons are expensive to manufacture and I would assume also to maintain. Although it is odd that we don't see atleast one fighter with some of the dragons refinements (possibly a newer generation fighter sized M/AM engine)

Dragons were expensive enough during their time, due to the combination of performance and leading-edge tech (M/A engines, jump drives, new shielding and armor technologies, special weapons like Fission Cannons). We do see the Dragon's legacy in newer craft, however - those high-YPR systems that appeared in it and the Bearcat show up in all of WCP's craft, as does the idea of special guns that can handle capship-level targets (see the Devastator) and the Strike Vampire concept.
 
Valid points. On a side note the dragon also is not the most appealing eye candy. It's like a box with wings and a beak.
 
I found the Dragon/Lance's looks to be rather intimidating.

Actually, with the exception of the Avenger bomber and Bearcat, all the newly-introduced fighters in WC4 were intimidating. Due mostly to the UBW's Kilrathi-esque aesthetic in ship design, of course.
 
Haesslich said:
Except that, while they 'almost maintain themselves' when it comes to ease of maintenance, you still need to replace parts or do minor repairs or refitting after each mission to keep them performing at their best. Remember that there's combat damage to consider, along with the usual problems inflicted by high-g maneuvering, and the resulting stresses that'll put on the frame.

They're going to cost more, especially being 'beyond cutting edge' craft.



Actually, the Black Vampire and upgraded Vampires in WCSO and WCP both match it in terms of shielding, exceed it in terms of firepower and missile loadout, and far outstrip it as far as maneuverability is concerned. They're rather like the conceptual mating of the Bearcat (high-maneuverability frames designed for dogfighting) and Dragon (powerful shield and guns plus some capship-killing capabilities) concepts. And they're even cloakable, though the cloaks don't work against the bugs.

Check the script on Wedge009's site - he has the audio clip where Stiletto and Maestro discover our cloaks don't work against the Nephilim's sensor suites.




Dragons were expensive enough during their time, due to the combination of performance and leading-edge tech (M/A engines, jump drives, new shielding and armor technologies, special weapons like Fission Cannons). We do see the Dragon's legacy in newer craft, however - those high-YPR systems that appeared in it and the Bearcat show up in all of WCP's craft, as does the idea of special guns that can handle capship-level targets (see the Devastator) and the Strike Vampire concept.

Yes but the Vampire was introduced many, many years later. And it specs are indeed beter than that of the Dragon, but compare the dragon to the ships in it's time. Now compare the Vampire to the Dragon. The Dragon was way ahead of it's time.
 
Colonel Jim said:
Haesslich said:
Dragons were expensive enough during their time, due to the combination of performance and leading-edge tech (M/A engines, jump drives, new shielding and armor technologies, special weapons like Fission Cannons). We do see the Dragon's legacy in newer craft, however - those high-YPR systems that appeared in it and the Bearcat show up in all of WCP's craft, as does the idea of special guns that can handle capship-level targets (see the Devastator) and the Strike Vampire concept.

Yes but the Vampire was introduced many, many years later. And it specs are indeed beter than that of the Dragon, but compare the dragon to the ships in it's time. Now compare the Vampire to the Dragon. The Dragon was way ahead of it's time.

Of COURSE the Dragon was ahead of its time - that's why it was so expensive. Beyond cutting-edge technology, combined with a few extra capabilities (the M/A engines alone would probably cost about as much as a squadron of regular fighters) made them superior to anything else in the field, especially since most of those craft were Kilrathi-War equipment. It's like comparing a B-2 Spirit stealth bomber to the F-118 or B-52 Stratofortress; the former is clearly superior to both its predecessors, but that's because of the technology and design changes that have gone on since the development of the former two craft.

Your earlier statement about how the shields and armor were unmatched is false - by WCP/SO, the shields and armor ARE matched by the Vampire, Shrike, and Devastator platforms. And any one of those craft could seriously cripple a Cat fleet, though the Devatator's the best equipped for that mission, with its plasma cannon.

The WC4 designs are not inherently 'the best ever' - they're merely superior craft for their time, and competitive designs even now (WCP/SO)... albeit dated ones.

Beyond which, I'd still say the Hvar'kann would stomp on the Vesuvius, if only because THAT ship was designed for the infighting that the Vesuvius was not - the latter is still a carrier, albeit one that can defend itself well against smaller craft.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
According to the novel there were only four squadrons: one captured by the Border Worlds, one lost at the weapons factory and two onboard the Vesuvius at the end.


Where exactly in the novel did it say there was only 4 squadrons? I didn't read that, they just wrote about the ones that were seen or impacted the storyline... other than that I don't recall reading anywhere in the novel anyone saying there was only 4 squads....
 
It's mentioned when Tolwyn tells Seether to the effect with "I can only give you two wings, one wing was with the Princeton and the other was in Speradon". So that means 4 squadrons times 16 fighters equals 64.

And even if you wanted to add all the Dragons you destroyed in WC4 to that number, it only adds another 16, which makes the total # of Dragon production to be no more then 80.
 
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