Kilrathi Grand Fleet...could it have been stopped?

Dundradal

Frog Blast the Vent Core!
I just recently reread fleet action and HOTT and was thinking about the grand fleet that was destroyed in orbit around kilrah. If it had not been for blair, it seems there would have been no chance of confleet defending earth against its combined force (hell even a single dreadnaught could ravage several task groups) and considering that the fleet would have dreadnaughts, the eight remaining hakagas, and some new bhantkara carriers, along with hundreds of escorts. Confleet even if it rallied all its forces like tolwyn had done before sirius and terra, I don't think they would be able to stop them. Maybe bloody them a bit, but if not for paladin's little secret ops earth would have been the site of the sivar cermony in 2670.
 

Viper61

Spaceman
Short answer . . .not a chance in hell. Maybe a half-dozen fleet carriers against the Grand Fleet? It would have been ugly. Fast, but ugly.

C-ya
 

Spartan689

Rear Admiral
Earth might have a chance if they tried suicide tactics, literally throw their ships at the Kilrathi hoping they if get through the withering firing they are sure to put up. They could go as far as using the Marines as they were used in Fleet Action, either way ConFleet is in a bad way.
 

BlackJack2063

Rear Admiral
No, play the losing path of WC3, that is the Grand Fleet. Thrakhath's final stroke, the Grand Fleet of the Kilrathi. If you try and fight it, it is a never ending battle.
 

Shooter

Rear Admiral
WCIII is all about the Confederation beeing on the edge of loosing the war. That's why Tolwin "breaks" when the Behemoth fails.
 

Meson

Swabbie
Banned
THe only way to defeat teh Grand Fleet is to do what Blair did: knock it out with an exploding planet.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
"Grand Fleet" as a proper noun refers to the pre-war Confederation Navy.

Earth might have a chance if they tried suicide tactics, literally throw their ships at the Kilrathi hoping they if get through the withering firing they are sure to put up. They could go as far as using the Marines as they were used in Fleet Action, either way ConFleet is in a bad way.

I think the Marine 'trick' is a "fool me once, shame on you" situation - it's not going to work a second time. We do see Eisen ram the Victory into one of Thrakhath's dreadnoughts in the losing endgame of WC3... but it doesn't turn the tide of the battle.

WCIII is all about the Confederation beeing on the edge of loosing the war. That's why Tolwin "breaks" when the Behemoth fails.

Hmm, I don't know if the relationship is so direct - there's a dozen reasons why Tolwyn did what he did after the war.

THe only way to defeat teh Grand Fleet is to do what Blair did: knock it out with an exploding planet.

SpaceBattles-destroy-the-universe scenarios aside, I've never been convinced that the destruction of Kilrah really crippled the Kilrathi fleet - at least two of the five known dreadnoughts (one in low orbit at the time) survived the explosion.
 

Chernikov

Spaceman
...from what I remember of the WC3 endgame, I dont know if you could claim that the Dreadnought that tractors Blair in could really be claimed to have survived.
 

Starkey

Avenging Rooster
Bandit LOAF said:
SpaceBattles-destroy-the-universe scenarios aside, I've never been convinced that the destruction of Kilrah really crippled the Kilrathi fleet - at least two of the five known dreadnoughts (one in low orbit at the time) survived the explosion.

Right, but they had that "All roads lead to Rome" (whoops, Kilrah, sorry ;) ) thing, and apparently they lost their will to fight the war after their homeworld exploded. Also, probably many top officers, pilots and millions of Kilrathi troops were lost, so I think they weren´t in condition of keep fighting the war anymore.
 

vindicator

Rear Admiral
I think it could have been stopped all though large if the fleet had survived the destruction of kilrah the kilrathi would still turn in on its self because with the emporer dead many would look to sieze power giving confleet the time to devise a plan

-Rance-
 

lukemax2

Spaceman
1/2

If the Kilrathi planet was destroyed lets say about 3/4 of the fleet survived because Confed as the power to destroy planets!

JAPAN AMERICA In WW2 Just think back to History kiddys!

Even if america was winning confed aahh you ghet the picture!
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
...from what I remember of the WC3 endgame, I dont know if you could claim that the Dreadnought that tractors Blair in could really be claimed to have survived.

Hmm, I don't recall any discernable damage to that ship (the Hvar K'ann). At least two others survived, though - the Vorghath and whichever dreadnought picked up Maniac's pod (event mentioned in the ICIS manual).

If the Kilrathi planet was destroyed lets say about 3/4 of the fleet survived because Confed as the power to destroy planets!

JAPAN AMERICA In WW2 Just think back to History kiddys!

Even if america was winning confed aahh you ghet the picture!

Mmm, I don't think it's the same situation - the power to destroy a planet isn't particularly *special*. The Kilrathi had at least three methods of doing effectively just that: Strontium airbursts (Fleet Action), the pandemic (WC3) and the Proton Accelerator Gun (SM1). They also knew that Confed had the technology to pull of the same feat (the Behemoth).

The thing that shocked the Kilrathi into surrender was the fact that we could get past their lines and destroy Kilrah - not that we could wipe out planets in general. (This is, in effect, the reverse of World War II - the Japanese knew we could wipe out their cities with reletive ease in 1945... they just didn't know we had the technology to do it with a single weapon.)
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
Starkey said:
Right, but they had that "All roads lead to Rome" (whoops, Kilrah, sorry ;) ) thing, and apparently they lost their will to fight the war after their homeworld exploded. Also, probably many top officers, pilots and millions of Kilrathi troops were lost, so I think they weren´t in condition of keep fighting the war anymore.

I'd say you're right to a degree - the destruction of Kilrah definitely created a catastrophic death toll for the Kilrathi. But considering their ethics for dying in battle, some would without a doubt splinter off and continue the fight, much like the faction found in False Colors.

On top of that, considering theres several dreadnaughts still in action immedeately after the attack on Kilrah and undoubtably other ships that survived, thats a pretty considerable force to throw against any fleet! (And I'm sure that the entire cat fleet wasn't above Kilrah - there still has to be border patrols, covert action groups and all sorts of escort runs through out their space which could be remustered into a smaller-but-still-something ready group of capital ships.)
 

Shooter

Rear Admiral
The problem is that in the minute that the clans leaders had no superiors (with the homeplanet beeing blown to pieces and all), they begun fighting each other for the leadership of the race.

"Kilrathi : Clan Wars" - That would be quite a game...
 

Bla1r

Spaceman
question: why didnt the Kilrathi keep on fighting after the destruction of Kilrah?
answer: ..... And a race without a homeworld? Unimaginable! The Kilrathi are a beaten race, and killing the one warrior great enough to bring about their end will bring me no honour. A new millennium lies ahead. We have become too corrupt, and too much slaves to our blood lust. And we have paid a heavy price. We are surrendering to you, Heart of the Tiger. It is an action unlike any we have ever taken – but it is time the Kilrathi find new ways. The Kilrathi must not die out as a race…

Melek

I think that every further assumptions are just our own ideas and cant be taken for granted.
 

LeHah

212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
Not everyone followed Melek though. The clans were split for a good, long while.
 

Nob Akimoto

Rear Admiral
The end of WC3 seems more like what would have happened had(very theoritically) Germany developed a long-range strategic bomber at the end of WW2 and used it to nuke NYC.

The Kilrathi/Confed disparity in numbers/resources is more akin to the Kilrathi being the side of the Allies(remember, GDP of the US outstripped every other nation by the time 1945 rolled around. In terms of total tonnage constructed, the US put in nearly thrice the tonnage in merchant marines in the single year of 1943 than Japan ever managed to do over the course of the entire war.)

The carrier disparity is a good example. By the end of the war the US had put in 141 carriers(of which 120 or so were jeep carriers, still a good 20 or so full fledged CV's) where Japan had only managed to commission 17 carriers including CVL's. Even assuming had Japan won Midway without a single loss, by 1945 the numbers would have looked a bit like this: US CV's- 17, CVL's-9, total aircraft: 1,826, IJN CV's- 11, CVL's- 4 total aircraft: 941.
 
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