Jump Fuel Indicator

Ijuin

Admiral
This is just a minor thing, but I think that it would be helpful for the player, what with the different flyable ships having different jump ranges, for the jump fuel indicator to be calibrated so that one bar equals one jump--that way a player could see directly how much fuel remains instead of having to remember "gee. my ship carries fuel for five jumps, and it looks like I have three-fifths of my fuel left..."
 

Plasteel Skull

Commodore
Ijuin said:
This is just a minor thing, but I think that it would be helpful for the player, what with the different flyable ships having different jump ranges, for the jump fuel indicator to be calibrated so that one bar equals one jump--that way a player could see directly how much fuel remains instead of having to remember "gee. my ship carries fuel for five jumps, and it looks like I have three-fifths of my fuel left..."
While drawing the concept art of new cockpits I had an idea, that besides a fuel indicator, there could be simply the small window "jumps left" and number of jumps (or it could completely replace the classic indicator). I don't know, what do you think?
 

Howard Day

Random art guy.
Nah, we're going for the traditional jump fuel bar. It's kind of a icon of the privateer game. Plus we need to have it be able to change capacity based on what jump drive you've got equipped. We're also toying with the idea of jump fuel useage being vriable depending on what the distance between the two jump points is. Not a lot of variance - but some.
 

Plasteel Skull

Commodore
Peidu said:
But wouldn't it make it more realistic?
I'm not sure whether words jumping and realistic fit together. Remember - if jumping would be real it would be based on the fact, that jump drive uses some gravitational time space anomaly and somehow enlarges or exploits it to pierce the fabric of timespace thus creating a wormhole through which your ship is flying. The ship itself doesnt move (fly) a single centimeter and so doesn't use a fuel in classical way we understand it (the longer the distance the larger the fuel usage). Then, please, tell me, why should I need more fuel to warp to a system 700 LY away than to some closer system? If you want do this in a REALISTIC way, IMO you should give every anomaly some value of how difficult it is to warp it and jump throug it - and then there could be places (i.e. those close to singularities) where the anomalies would be so strong - that they would jump a ship without even enabling jumpdrive - we could call those anomalies regular wormholes, I guess.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
Doing this in a 'realistic' way means making it real to how it works in Privateer -- which uses the same amount of fuel for every jump.

Better question: since your game is apparently set in my version of the Landreich Sector, will it simulate the Pulsar 'long jump'?
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
It's the "special" jump (between Vordran and Seti Beta in the current map) from the Wing Commander Academy episode "Expendable". It's a "long jump" caused by the pulsar in the Seti Beta system... instead of being (or seeming) instantaneous, the jump lasts for several hours and the pilots experience the time in jump space.

It wouldn't have been officially charted in 2652, but it'd still be there... (actually, that applies to a lot of the Landreich Sector -- WCPio developers should remember that the CIC map is the universe as it appears in 2681. Some additional research to get the Landreich Sector right for the period is a must.)
 

Cam

Spaceman
It would be great if you could work for the Exploratory Services or whatever they were called in Privateer, and chart those systems yourselves...
 

Ijuin

Admiral
Anyway, as I mentioned in the original post, I would simply like there to be some sort of indication of how much fuel you "really" have as opposed to just showing it as a fraction of the maximum. Maybe have a digital indicator showing fuel in "kilograms" or some other standard unit?
 

Howard Day

Random art guy.
Yup. I know a lot of the information about the LRFR that we've got needs to be colored by the period we're using - have no fear. The thing is, though - this sort of universe stuff is supremely easy to edit and change. I mean the structure of star systems, the positions and destinations of jump points...What's on the map, and what isn't. I know we've got a lot of research to do in that regard, but I'd rather not worry about it till we get the main engine done.
We're probably going to stick with the jump fuel indicator as it is - but we'll put an option for a fuel status MFD screen - it'll show you jump fuel, standard fuel, and how much you scoops are taking in.
 

Ijuin

Admiral
Scoops take in fuel? Does that mean that you can run a net fuel surplus (i.e. that you can raise the level of fuel in your tank by using the scoops)? Jump fuel being separate would mean that you also have consumable fuel for normal afterburner use as opposed to Privateer's approach of using gun power for the afterburners?

A fuel MFD screen sounds fine to me--I just wanted to be able to know my absolute quantity of jump fuel as opposed to just seeing it as a fraction of a full tank.
 

Eder

Mr. Standoff
Howard Day said:
We're probably going to stick with the jump fuel indicator as it is - but we'll put an option for a fuel status MFD screen - it'll show you jump fuel, standard fuel, and how much you scoops are taking in.
That sounds great to me.
 

Plasteel Skull

Commodore
Ijuin said:
Scoops take in fuel? Does that mean that you can run a net fuel surplus (i.e. that you can raise the level of fuel in your tank by using the scoops)?
This kind of a solution was used for the first time in Elite I guess. It worked with standard issue hyperdrive engines (with kind of worked as a standard engines) useing hydrogen as a fuel. If you wanted to explore remote star systems (there was whole Milky Way to explore) you just loaded a fuel scoop device onto your ship, and in every system you jumped had to close to some star and wait for several hours - the scoop collected hydrogen from solar wind or something like that - in that way you've been independent on standard ways of acquiring fuel. Cool solution and I strongly support it in Pioneer in that form or another.

Ijuin said:
Jump fuel being separate would mean that you also have consumable fuel for normal afterburner use as opposed to Privateer's approach of using gun power for the afterburners?
This sentence isn't 100% true. I remember well, that in WC3 (of that sequel I am sure) the afterburner fuel was being used up during a mission, and when it has been finished your ship's maximum velocity was a cruising velocity.

Ijuin said:
A fuel MFD screen sounds fine to me--I just wanted to be able to know my absolute quantity of jump fuel as opposed to just seeing it as a fraction of a full tank.
I like the idea very much too.
 

Dyret

Super Carrot!
Plasteel Skull said:
This kind of a solution was used for the first time in Elite I guess. It worked with standard issue hyperdrive engines (with kind of worked as a standard engines) useing hydrogen as a fuel. If you wanted to explore remote star systems (there was whole Milky Way to explore) you just loaded a fuel scoop device onto your ship, and in every system you jumped had to close to some star and wait for several hours - the scoop collected hydrogen from solar wind or something like that - in that way you've been independent on standard ways of acquiring fuel. Cool solution and I strongly support it in Pioneer in that form or another.
I think the scoops in Wing Commander gathers fuel for the regular engines, not the jumpdrive or afterburner.
 

Plasteel Skull

Commodore
Dyret said:
I think the scoops in Wing Commander gathers fuel for the regular engines, not the jumpdrive or afterburner.
I realise that in WC a jump drive and a conventional ship engine are two diffeent things. Yet i guess that afterburner is just an upgrade of engines, invoking the text found on a net:

"A modern turbine engine is extremely efficient, and there is still a lot of oxygen available in the exhaust stream. The idea behind an afterburner is to inject fuel directly into the exhaust stream and burn it using this remaining oxygen. This heats and expands the exhaust gases further, and can increase the thrust of a jet engine by 50% or more.

The big advantage of an afterburner is that you can significantly increase the thrust of the engine without adding much weight or complexity to the engine. An afterburner is nothing but a set of fuel injectors, a tube and flame holder that the fuel burns in, and an adjustable nozzle. A jet engine with an afterburner needs an adjustable nozzle so that it can work both with the afterburners on and off.

The disadvantage of an afterburner is that it uses a lot of fuel for the power it generates. Therefore most planes use afterburners sparingly. For example, a military jet would use its afterburners when taking off from the short runway on an aircraft carrier, or during a high-speed maneuver in a dogfight. "

The conclusion is, that useing afterburner causes usage of standard engine fuel.
 

Dyret

Super Carrot!
Yes, but remember that in every WC except for Privateer you never run out of conventional engine fuel(because of the scoops) but you still have a fuel indicator telling you how much fuel is left for your afterburners, therefore, it must be two different kinds of fuel. The civillian afterburner on the other hand, relies on the ships energy reserves.
 

Plasteel Skull

Commodore
Dyret said:
Yes, but remember that in every WC except for Privateer you never run out of conventional engine fuel(because of the scoops) but you still have a fuel indicator telling you how much fuel is left for your afterburners, therefore, it must be two different kinds of fuel. The civillian afterburner on the other hand, relies on the ships energy reserves.
Maybe its like this: When you use up all surplus fuel from some additional tank reserved for afterburners (but the same type of fuel as for the engines) the ships systems will automaticaly block useing of afterburners because scoops which are getting fuel for a normal (cruising speed) flight are not so effective as to supply afterburners with fuel anfd suddenly you could end with no fuel at all, a dire situation indeed.
 

Cargoman

Spaceman
I am sure one of the WC gurus can make short work of a "proper" answer .
I do remember afterburner "fuel" and guns "energy stores" using the same indicator. Fuel for engines , power for afterburner , it would
replenish / recharge itself .
 
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